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Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by m4rtink on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @02:46PM (#42702764)
Provided all this centralized governement owned and run infra somehow gets built, what it would be actually doing to warrant the expense ?

I am quite skeptical in this regard. :P

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by Terr_ on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:01PM (#42702992)
Well, it would funnel tax dollars to already-established companies that don't need the subsidies. :p

I have some sympathy for certain domestic capabilities (e.g. chip fabrication) but this "AI" bubble cross-infecting government policy is frustrating to watch.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by JohnBooty on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:50PM (#42703655)
It's hard to know how much this effort is about the government's belief in AI, and how much of it is about supporting the technology sector while using AI as a convenient buzzword.

I think, though, that even if LLMs turn out to be a dead-end and don't progress much further... there are a lot of benefits here.

One of the US's key strategic advantages is brain drain.

We are one of the world's premier destinations for highly educated, highly skilled people from other countries. Their loss, our gain.

There are of course myriad other countries where they could go, many of them more attractive than the US in various ways. Every country in the world is in a sense competing for this talent.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by cuteboy19 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:11PM (#42703926)
zero sum thinking has already infected public policy. turns out liberals can be just as "they took our jobs" as the redneck conservative.

the real fear should be that people wouldnt want to come. already chinese intl students are break even when considering US vs going back to china. who wants to deal with all the bureaucracy and hatred when they could just go back and work for deepseek.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by shafyy on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:23PM (#42704769)
> * One of the US's key strategic advantages is brain drain.*

I think the brain drain has peaked. Many people here in Europe don't think much of the US anymore, while 20-30 years ago it was THE place to go.

I'm sure many countries like India and China, for whom the US still might be somewhat attractive, are going to go the way of Europeans.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by cadamsdotcom on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @09:12PM (#42706532)
It’d be worth comparing your opinion to data, so you aren’t stuck with an unverified opinion.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by JohnBooty on Wednesday January 15, 2025 @12:19PM (#42713884)
Regardless of how the US ranks in terms of brain drain, and how that rank is trending, it's clearly an area where the government wants to compete.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by int_19h on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:04PM (#42728641)
As of this year, the US employment-based green card backlog for citizens of India is such that they're currently still processing applications filed in 2019 for the top EB-1 category (that's "Extraordinary People, Outstanding Researchers and Professors, and Multinational Executives and Managers"), and 2012 for mere PhDs. So the numbers would have to go down a lot for US to even notice.

Speaking as an immigrant myself, so long as there's still noticeable wealth disparity, people will make the jump. The other aspect that makes US specifically especially attractive compared to some others is its family immigration policy - people generally want their family to join them eventually, and US has an unusually large allotment for that compared to many other countries.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by phkahler on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:34PM (#42703457)
>> Well, it would funnel tax dollars to already-established companies that don't need the subsidies.

Yeah it sounded like a gift to nVidia.

My prediction was that nVidia would ride the quantum wave by offering systems to simulate quantum computers with huge classical ones. They would do that by asking the government to fund such systems for "quantum algorithm research" since nobody really knows what to use QC for yet.

This move primes that relationship using the current AI hype boom.

So look for their quantum simulation-optimized chips in the near future.

GPU, gpgpu, crypto, ray tracing, AI, quantum. nvidia is a master at milking dollars from tech fads.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by __MatrixMan__ on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:32PM (#42703433)
They'll be scouring the internet for signs of thoughtcrime and jamming the sources they find. Also, automating those sectors that tend to produce whistleblowers.

Because if they don't do the bad thing first, some bogeyman might become better at it than they are. Same logic that gave us the Manhattan project.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by exe34 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:17PM (#42703996)
corporate handouts.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by ericmay on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:15PM (#42703210)
What would the cost be of not undertaking these actions?
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by JohnBooty on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:42PM (#42703558)
In the micro, nothing. We'd have a bunch of extra cash we can spend on other stuff.

In the macro?

The overall goal is keeping the US competitive in technology. Both in terms of producing/controlling IP as well as (perhaps even more crucially) remaining a premier destination for technologists from all over the world. The cost of not achieving that goal is... incalculable, but large.

Whether or not this is a good way to achieve that goal is of course up for debate.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by SoftTalker on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:28PM (#42704139)
We have no extra cash. We are so far in debt as it is we'll never get out.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by int_19h on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:10PM (#42728735)
It's not just the economic cost that is a consideration here. The military applications of AI are potentially staggering (as are the associated ethical concerns - but, as with any military tech, once someone does it and the advantages become clear, others will inevitably follow). No major power player is going to want to risk getting drastically outpaced by its primary competitors.

Note that this isn't a hypothetical, either. Israel is already using AI to pick targets. Ukraine is already using AI-controlled drones to beat jamming. There's no indication that either one intends to stop anytime soon, which tells the others that the tech is working for this purpose.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by j45 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:36PM (#42703480)
If it's for the government.. Bureaucratic processes?
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by jay_kyburz on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:23PM (#42703321)
I suspect we are not in a race for a better LLM, but a race to the singularity.

"I. J. Good's intelligence explosion model of 1965, an upgradable intelligent agent could eventually enter a positive feedback loop of self-improvement cycles, each successive; and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing a rapid increase ("explosion") in intelligence which would ultimately result in a powerful superintelligence, qualitatively far surpassing all human intelligence.[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by Terr_ on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:35PM (#42703468)
> I suspect we are not in a race for a better LLM, but a race to the singularity.

We are in the race for a better LLM, disguised as a race to the singularity, because that's what gets investor-dollars and fame.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:43PM (#42703571)
Is there any reason whatsoever that I should think that I. J. Good's intelligence explosion model of 1965 corresponds to reality?
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by jay_kyburz on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:13PM (#42703960)
When I step through the logic in my mind, seems likely.

Lets make the leap of faith that we can improve our AIs to actually understand code that it's reading and can suggest improvements. Current LLMs can't do it, but perhaps another approach can. I don't think this is a big leap. Might be 10 years, might be 100.

It's not unreasonable to think there is a lot of cruft and optimization to be had in our current tech stacks allowing for significant improvement. The AI can start looking at every source file from the lowest driver all the way up to the UI.

It can also start looking at hardware designs and build chips dedicated to the functions it needs to perform.

You only need to be as smart as a human to achieve this. You can rely on a "quantitative" approach because even human level AI brains don't need to sleep or eat or live. They just work on your problems 24/7 and can you have have as many as you can manufacture and power.

I think having "qualitatively" superior is a little easier actually because with a large enough database the AI has perfect recall and all of the worlds data at its fingertips. No human can do that.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:24PM (#42704086)
Let's say all of that happens. Is there any reason to believe that will lead to "a positive feedback loop of self-improvement cycles, each successive; and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing a rapid increase ("explosion") in intelligence which would ultimately result in a powerful superintelligence, qualitatively far surpassing all human intelligence"?

Or is it more reasonable to suppose that 1) all those improvements might get us a factor of 10 in efficiency, but they won't get us an intelligence that can get us another factor of 10 in efficiency, 2) each doubling of ability will take much more than doubling of the number of CPU cycles and RAM, and 3) growth will asymptotically approach some upper limit?

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by gregw2 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @07:12PM (#42705744)
A lot of tech improvements are s-curves or waves of s-curves, not exponentials. For a given problem domain you will still have s-curves, but for overall intelligence/progress it might be exponential in some overall sense.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by jay_kyburz on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:47PM (#42704361)
Yeah sure, there are physical limits, and doing things like mining, manufacturing, and logistics are really slow compared to just thinking. But that's just time and money. I don't see why it wouldn't happen. You build a machine to make machines. First you have 1, then 2, then 4, then 8, then 16 etc.

Then when the earth is used up, you look at space. Space travel is a lot easier because you don't need to keep a meat bag alive.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by nradov on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:39PM (#42703521)
Belief in a coming technological singularity is completely unscientific and based on zero hard evidence. It is essentially a secular religion with computers cast as deities to either usher in a new utopia or exterminate us all. Surely I am coming quickly, sayeth the Lord.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by glitchc on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:06PM (#42704574)
I for one am not worried about this. We still have trouble building robots that can wash dishes autonomously, let alone build nuclear power plants autonomously. The key word here being autonomously i.e. without human intervention, which is what a superintelligent machine would require to grow into this singularity.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by jay_kyburz on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @06:32PM (#42705410)
I'm not "worried" about it. Just observing that the race is on. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as long as the tech is in the hands of "the good guys".

I think as soon as you can get an AI to break a task down into smaller tasks, and make itself a todo list, you have the autonomy. You just kick it all off by asking it to improve itself. I doesn't have to "want" anything, it just needs to work.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by glitchc on Wednesday January 15, 2025 @12:31PM (#42714084)
I think you missed my point. I think we're a long ways away from it being a race against humanity.
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by FrustratedMonky on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:20PM (#42703267)
Building Skynet of course.

There is already AI flying F-16's.

AI targeting systems.

AI surveillance

I mean, sky's the limit.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by torified on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:02PM (#42704524)
All that illegal wiretapping has to be analyzed somehow!
Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by nostradumbasp on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @06:25PM (#42705350)
How else will we uncover what we could expose torified too so they flip out and lose their job so agent jackson can take their jerb by reading their hackernews comments and knowing all of the media they've been exposed too during the day?

Or try to make them have a heart attack by making a digital twin of them which synchronizes their sentiment, smart watch health data, and man-in-the-middling all of their digital conversations with creepy GenAI? Our adversaries might be doing it, so line up some fresh specimens. Come on bruh it's the future, you gotta think bigger.

Re:Executive order on advancing United States leadership in ... by chrishtr on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:45PM (#42704974)
It's not government owned and operated. It's just on government land.