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Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by xeonmc on Sunday December 01, 2024 @11:20PM (#42293068)
Tangentially related, but https://old.reddit.com/r/OneOrangeBraincell/ is a subreddit dedicated to specifically orange-furred cats. I was expecting quite something else when I first read the subreddit name.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by aitchnyu on Monday December 02, 2024 @12:54AM (#42293506)
Do orange cats act/be dumber than the rest or is it Internet legend?
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by hakube on Monday December 02, 2024 @04:14AM (#42294471)
they're not dumb but they're a menace. They have some interesting quirks but the same could be said about black/tuxedo cats
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by willis936 on Monday December 02, 2024 @03:40AM (#42294311)
Yes, but it's because 70% of orange cats are male and male cats tend to be more impulsive. It's a correlation rather than a causation.

https://youtu.be/wPVBGE6uUS4

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by consf on Monday December 02, 2024 @07:57AM (#42295720)
But that doesn't necessarily mean they are less intelligent
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by cainxinth on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:18AM (#42295896)
Stupid is as stupid does
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by shagie on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:11AM (#42296366)
Genetics says that this is also true for black cats (that most black cats are male).

However, less is said about them and there's less meme / awareness about female black cats being less common.

I suspect this is that an intact male orange cat is much more noticeably male than an intact male black cat.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by jzb on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:22AM (#42296500)
most black cats are male

Huh, I had not heard that. In my experience it's pretty evenly split -- at least, in my circle of friends and family there's eight black cats, four of each. (Most short-haired, one long-haired black cat that's female.)

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by shagie on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:50AM (#42296736)
Cat coat color is an X linked gene, so there's no representation of it on the Y chromosome.

Let's denote this as Xo and Xb for the genes. An orange female cat is XoXo, a tortoise shell / calico cat is XoXb and a black female cat is XbXb.

Male cats are either XbY or XoY - there are no tortoise shell male cats (there are cats with Klinefelter's syndrome that can be XbXoY but only mentioning this for a full coverage of the topic - and for a real example of this https://disneylandcats.com/cat-profile-francisco/ and it confuses things since XbXbY and XoXoY cats would be difficult to identify without a genetic test).

The thing with all of this is that the genetics for XoXo or XbXb and XoY or XbY are exactly the same percentages.

Doing the Punnett squares for cat coats and all the possible pairings and you get simplified

    Genotype Count Percent of XX or XY
    XoXo     3     25%
    XoXb     6     50%
    XbXb     3     25%
    XoY      6     50%
    XbY      6     50%
It ends up with 2/3 of the orange cats being male and 2/3 of the black cats being male. This doesn't quite match real world situations since you could have a colony that is dominated by orange cats (or black cats ... or neither).
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by jacoblambda on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:01AM (#42296849)
Also noting that you can occassionally get a "tortiose shell" esque male cat via a pretty rare process known as chimerism. i.e. two or more different embryos merge in the womb resulting in different parts of the body being formed from different embryos (meaning different DNA depending what part of the body you sample from). And of course for this to result in a cat you can see, they have to get lucky enough that the combination of embryos still produces a viable fetus.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by shagie on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:08AM (#42296917)
Messybeast ( http://messybeast.com and more specifically http://messybeast.com/catarchive.htm and http://messybeast.com/genetics-index.htm ... and much much more) is the site I've found for cat coat genetics.

http://messybeast.com/mosaicism6.htm

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by Cieric on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:10AM (#42296943)
Not to take anything away from the info you've provided since it is all interesting. But it seems francisco's gender is pretty debated. There are a few that talk about them being a female with certainty, but without any reasoning I also take their info with a grain of salt.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by shagie on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:13AM (#42296972)
Here are some other examples - http://messybeast.com/mosaicism3.htm

Francisco is the example I picked since he's likely the most well known of tortoiseshell (supposedly) male cats.

I suspect that some of the claims that he's female is based on a lack of knowledge of Klinefelter's syndrome.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by waveBidder on Monday December 02, 2024 @01:44AM (#42293741)
we have 2 orange kittens, and just this morning caught one of them trying to eat pebbles. there's always some weird new hijinks that they're up to.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by n-i-m-a on Monday December 02, 2024 @05:02AM (#42294696)
My kitten had iron-deficiency when he was doing that. Maybe worth a quick check/ask and with a little bit of dietary change or a supplement the problem could be addressed.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by saghm on Monday December 02, 2024 @02:03AM (#42293813)
In my anecdotal experience, it's 100% true, but this also seems like it might be a bit of confirmation bias.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by UncleSlacky on Monday December 02, 2024 @07:24AM (#42295499)
When I was a child I had a very intelligent (female) orange tabby.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by Miraltar on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:33AM (#42296025)
Reading was instead of had was very confusing to me
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by goodpoint on Monday December 02, 2024 @03:23AM (#42294229)
It's an internet legend. There is zero difference in reality but people love anecdata.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by jdck1326 on Monday December 02, 2024 @04:33AM (#42294574)
source?
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by williamdclt on Monday December 02, 2024 @05:43AM (#42294876)
I think the burden of proof is on the "orange cats have statistically-significant behavioural specificity" side
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by TheSpiceIsLife on Monday December 02, 2024 @07:49AM (#42295671)
I mean, they are orange.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by reducesuffering on Monday December 02, 2024 @01:14AM (#42293600)
The stereotype is that orange cats are feistier. In my personal anecdotal experience it's true
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by immibis on Monday December 02, 2024 @06:47AM (#42295257)
I thought that was about people, and it turned out there was actually some gene that affects both personality and hair colour.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by empty_space on Monday December 02, 2024 @04:37AM (#42294594)
There is the "one shared brain cell" meme. See Walthazarbobalthazarfeefiefofalthazar III (Walter the Catt, for short).

But smart or stupid, impish or limpish, all cats are baby.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by ChrisMarshallNY on Monday December 02, 2024 @06:16AM (#42295059)
The cat that owns our family is good-natured, affectionate, well-behaved, and dumb as a bag of hammers.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by BankHottas on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:14AM (#42295867)
This is my favorite HN comment of all time
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by WXLCKNO on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:46AM (#42296132)
Lmao. I don't often laugh on hn like this.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by consf on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:06AM (#42296891)
The perfect combination of charm and simplicity
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by dennis_jeeves2 on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:46AM (#42297294)
Mine is wicked, self centered, and doesn't give 2 hoots about anybody except his food.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by ChrisMarshallNY on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:52AM (#42297347)
Probably smart as hell. I have a friend, with a little black cat that has him completely wrapped around her paw.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by fiedzia on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:23AM (#42295946)
Internet legend. All cats do the same things. Some individuals are smarter, but I doubt it has anything to do with fur color. And I don't recall hearing anything special about orange cats from people who have many cats.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by yabones on Monday December 02, 2024 @08:42AM (#42296105)
It's largely folklore, but there is a kernel of truth to it. Orange cats have a pretty "silly" attitude, kind of like golden retriever dogs. Black/tux cats are usually docile and friendly. Female tortiseshell/tabby cats are lunatics. But there's also quite a bit of individual variation. I'd say it varies more from cat to cat than the "breed" would imply.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by phaedrus on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:58AM (#42297400)
Can confirm female tortiseshell cats are, yes- lunatic is the best way to describe their personality. My family had several and they were all a combination of smart and crazy, mostly the latter. As a teenager I found it amusing to teach one of them to ride on my shoulder like a pirate's parrot. An unintended consequence is that she would also do that to house guests, who weren't expecting it, making a five foot vertical leap from ground level from behind to perch on their shoulder.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by EasyMark on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:17AM (#42296445)
This describes my black cat exactly; she runs and hides at the door bell, but when it all calms down, she inevitably comes out to see who it is and within half hour is trying to climb in their lap and is begging for attention from the new person. I had an orange cat once and he pretty much thought he was the family dog. I’ve never seen a friendlier cat, didn’t matter if it was another cat, a dog, a person, or a squirrel; anyone who would play he was ready to go.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by flkiwi on Monday December 02, 2024 @11:59AM (#42298031)
We have an almost pure-black void that screams bloody murder at everything--pick her up, screaming; walk in the room, screaming; give her food, screaming--but cuddles more aggressively than any cat I've ever heard of and purrs nonstop (when she isn't screaming). She hisses as a primary communications mechanism. I hear that cat hiss more in a day than every hiss from every other cat I've ever had combined. She also panic poops when the other cat gets within 5 feet.

She is pure, hate-filled joy.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by toast0 on Monday December 02, 2024 @12:26PM (#42298265)
> She is pure, hate-filled joy.

Cats are full of love and murder; all in different amounts. Sounds like yours has lots of both <3

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by flkiwi on Monday December 02, 2024 @12:48PM (#42298491)
Yep, and she's simultaneously magical and awful. Just a perfect cat.

She came out of a storm drain as a very, very young kitten, so her wiring is probably all sorts of messed up.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by nikole9696 on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:52AM (#42296749)
More anecdata; my orange boy also thought he was the family dog. He was rather dumb as a rock, but sweet as pie. Loved every human or animal he ever met.

My current cat is a calico and white and she's...emotional. =)

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by moomin on Monday December 02, 2024 @11:15AM (#42297605)
My next door neighbour was a ginger crossed with a persian. Let's just say there was a LOT of orange. The cat was very friendly to humans, and an absolute terror to foxes and any cat they didn't consider a neighbour.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by arethuza on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:51AM (#42296743)
We used to have two Burmese cats and although they were from the same litter they had completely different personalities.
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by tdeck on Monday December 02, 2024 @02:57PM (#42299748)
What is this based on?
Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by jzb on Monday December 02, 2024 @09:30AM (#42296569)
We have a very fluffy orange guy who is... not dumb, exactly, but I'd say he operates on a different plane than the rest of us. He often stares at things that aren't there -- or, at least, that none of us can see -- and he tends to puzzle things out more slowly and differently. For example, he didn't vocalize much at all as a kitten but has picked up sounds from other cats in the household. He didn't purr at all until very recently (he's six). He can jump like a champion, but hasn't figured out he can leap up to a spot with another cat's kibble. (Instead he sits and looks at it longingly while his sibling jumps up there and eats it if it's left unguarded...)

However, some of that might be explained by the fact that he was a very, very sickly kitten who almost didn't make it, and he seems to have a mild case of cerebellar hypoplasia.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by dghughes on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:01AM (#42296851)
My parents got a mature older orange cat who was baffled by doors. An open door was no issue but a half door open? Baffling! He sat and stared at the impossible to navigate two foot wide gap.

He loved BBQ it was obvious his previous owner did a lot of BBQing. My Dad dropped some raw hamburger for him.

Dad's Lay-Z-Boy chair wouldn't do down. What he didn't know was the cat was under it. The chair would slam down on his head but that was of no concern of the cat.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by ordu on Monday December 02, 2024 @10:46AM (#42297278)
The most dumb cat I had was the siamese cat. She was not orange. She learned how to steal from a pan closed by a lid only when she spent a summer in country with my old cat, who was a street born, and he was really smart. At some point he led me for a mile, insisting that I followed him. I followed because I was curios. It turned out my cat planned an assault on some house (not on humans but on an another male cat there) and wanted me to help.

But my siamese was extremely stupid. For example, it is the only cat that could be distracted. If you took a cat on your lap and it didn't feel like sitting on your lap, it would be hard to keep cat there, it would take any chance to run away. But my siamese would allow me to distract her and would forget that she wanted to run away. It could be distracted from food also. Her attention span was seconds, not like most of cats who get an idea and become obsessed with it.

She had broken spine near the tail. My theory is cats hide their real brain somewhere in the back of the spine, while the thing in their heads exists to mislead humans.

Re:Gene behind orange fur in cats found at last by consf on Monday December 02, 2024 @07:58AM (#42295728)
I really like that subreddit. Usually lights up my day...