So… the interviewee doesn’t get the job even though they knocked it out of the park, and the H1B doesn’t get their visa because the other interviewee did well. Basically nobody wins, and the H1B person is out of a job in 2-3 years?

Yes, this is precisely what the comment thread is saying. Shmatt’s original post should shock you with its conclusion because everyone loses including shmatt.

I’m not necessarily shocked but more appalled. I’ve always wondered this - in tech there’s very little reason to believe that you need to import talent. Learning is mostly democratized these days, and I find it hard pressed to believe that there isn’t a US Citizen for literally any tech company. But they cost more hence they try to do the whole H1B process… which then comes to bite them back.

I literally quit my previous job, because people were hired after "a few Coursera courses".

Sorry, if you "learned online" and haven't spent a few years building software - you aren't immediately as qualified as a graduate from IIT.

You don't go abroad and "import talent", but rather hire the intern that just graduated or have someone apply with a high recommendation from a high performer and now your in an H1B situation. They aren't posting the job on physical boards in india hoping to snag someone to come to the US (At least for FAANG).

Exactly, and I don’t understand the fraud comments because this is exactly how US lawmakers intended the system the work. Easy to come for 3-6 years, hard to stay forever

It would be better if the “replaceable” part was determined on the federal level and not on the team level. That would get rid of all the ghost jobs

> Basically nobody wins

Business wins.

I dislike this system as much as you do. Clearly the PERM cert is flawed. I suppose the system is working as intended, and I'm not sure what the drama is, although of course, from a human empathy point of view, I feel like the story is making you look like the worst actor in this scenario.

That is unfair, but forgive me: you hold all the cards and occupy the most powerful position in the story, and you are framing it in absolutes, trying to make yourself a victim, talking about it as though you are powerless.

is this the situation of POSIWID

I’ve only had very limited experience with colleagues on OPT and my role as a hiring manager with an OPT visa holder.

There’s a big difference between a tech enabled agency, sometimes called a “body shop” - where you are B2B, you are someone’s lower cost option, you are a middleman - and a startup, where whatever you are developing - seemingly B2B, social media apps, hardware, biotech - in some form or another, your core business is capturing 90%+ margins on the LTVs of end users. With experience only in the startup style business, you ought to structure the economics of the deals to your employees such that they can buy what they want if everything works out, and all the incentives align.

So to me, it’s not super material, green card this, PERM certification that: if you make a ton of money, you can surmount any bureaucratic obstacle in this country. Is that the purpose of the system? A complex administrative problem like UCSIS policy and related politics cannot defeat the power of the almighty dollar. So for people who have agency, like startup CEOs, it’s possible to sincerely offer a path to citizenship in the US, in light of things like O1, E1, marriage, etc, that doesn’t break any laws, but only costs money.

Don't you have to demonstrate that there is no qualified US worker? I find this unbelievable and outrageous.

>> As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone

If an actual citizen could have done the job, they shouldn't be in the country in the first place.

This is not a constant fact, though. In 2021 there were not enough qualified US work eligible candidates to go around. Right now is going to be a very different story for many roles.

>> In 2021 there were not enough qualified US work eligible candidates to go around.

That is only ever true at a certain salary level. If they (hypothetically) 10x-ed the salary, do you think they would still have a shortage?

Probably. Poaching an employee from somewhere else still creates an opening that can't be filled.

Finally I understood, thank you.

> The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it.

Sorry, I'm still unclear. What rule says you can't submit your employee's green card application even though you've determined that you won't hire a citizen to do that job?