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Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by IncreasePosts on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:52AM (#42065138)
What horrible things happened because of the policies of the first trump presidency?

COVID response seems like the biggest mistake, but that was a never before seen global pandemic, and it isn't clear to me that anyone else in office could have handled it differently.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by slillibri on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:57AM (#42065242)
The pandemic response, the Muslim ban, family separation at the southern boarder, repealing roe v wade, ending DACA. This doesn’t even take into account the policies he wants to enact like mass deportations.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by laichzeit0 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:00PM (#42065298)
What is the problem with deporting people who are there illegally? As someone who doesn’t live on the border of the United States do you know how incredibly hard it is to legally immigrate there? I don’t see why other people should be allowed to jump the line. There’s a legal way to get in, follow it like everyone else.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by spacedcowboy on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:15PM (#42065568)
Let me see now...

- Forcibly separating children from parents, with no plan to reunite them. There are still children missing, who were spirited off $deity-knows-where. If criminals do it, we call it kidnapping and people-trafficking, but this was official government policy

- Let's focus on those kids, who were locked up in prisons, had any medication they were on confiscated, and we're not just talking teenagers here, some of those kids were under 5.

- The conditions they were held in would make a grown man weep, held in iron cages, kids defecating and vomiting in the heat. Staff wouldn't help small children, it was left to other children to try and keep the infants well.

- Routine use of pyschotropic drugs to act as "chemical straitjackets" on older children, so they would be usefully docile while being caged like animals

- Sexual assault on these unresisting, drugged children. That's rape. Of children - usually girls but not always. Under government supervision.

Personally I don't support the rape of children, but more than half the voting public seem to be "just fine" with it.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by ryandrake on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:25PM (#42065733)
> Personally I don't support the rape of children, but more than half the voting public seem to be "just fine" with it.

They're not just saying they're "just fine" with it. They are enthusiastically voting for it.

We have to come to terms with the fact that very clear, consistent campaign themes of cruelty and selfishness won over a majority of voters. Deep, country-wide introspection is needed.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by newaccount74 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:00PM (#42066414)
I think that people really like violence, but no-one will publicly admit it. People want others to suffer. Nobody really cares about making the world a better place, or saving the climate or whatever. People just want a better life. But they have no perspective of getting a better life, so they will settle for everyone else to get worse.

It's the only way it all makes sense. I don't think that all those voters who vote for Trump and Putin and Erdogan and all the other autocrats think they'll have a better life. But they know that all those other people are going to suffer, and it makes them feel a bit better.

The most dangerous man (or woman) is someone who thinks they have nothing to lose.

People feel dispair, and therefore they vote for people who will make others suffer.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by laichzeit0 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:48PM (#42066165)
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Nothing what you said addresses illegal immigration. Are you saying illegal immigration is something good and if you’re against it you’re for child rape?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by vile_wretch on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:01PM (#42066436)
Everything they listed was the result of the Trump administration's immigration policies. Do you think human beings should be subjected to these things just because they're living somewhere illegally?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by foobarian on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:07PM (#42065431)
Having gone through the legal immigration gauntlet, which took decades of sacrifice, I have no sympathy for illegal immigration either. But the other problem is that the economy is not so much about money as who does the work, and I suspect that cohort does a disproportionate amount of it and would crash the economy if actually deported. I predict the same thing will happen with Trump's deportation threat as has happened with the wall and Mexico paying for it.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by duped on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:27PM (#42065779)
You're taking what they're saying at face value. The policy goal of the Republican party is to create a white, Evangelical ethnostate.

Their issue isn't legal vs illegal immigration. It's white vs nonwhite. They make "the legal way" harder for anyone that isn't white, which doesn't stem immigration. It just makes it easier to turn away non-whites at the border.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by newfriend on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:34PM (#42067991)
Just a bunch of nonsense lies. You live in an echo chamber outside of reality. I suggest some introspection.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by duped on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:06PM (#42068516)
I am very tired of defending this, because it's so self evident to me from listening to what Republican politicians say and do. The echo chamber isn't telling me that we're months away from concentration camps for brown people, that came from Stephen Miller. That's just one example among many.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bigstrat2003 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:27PM (#42065778)
Repealing Roe v Wade is a great thing, not a terrible thing. Highly contentious issues absolutely should be left to the states to decide, not forced upon them at a federal level.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by PsylentKnight on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:37PM (#42065957)
Damn TIL, guess we need to roll back desegregation and abolition too cause that was so contentious
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:39PM (#42065990)
Isn't slavery supposed to be a state's rights issue?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Terr_ on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:51PM (#42066218)
Only in the sense that slave-owners tried to take away the rights of other states to not participate and assist in slavery, and then wrote their own constitution which forced every state to have slavery forever no matter what.

... But in the conventional sense of increasing state autonomy, no. :p

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by newfriend on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:36PM (#42068022)
Feel free to propose a Constitutional Amendment on abortion and get it ratified.

Until then, it's a state's rights issue.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Terr_ on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:40PM (#42067117)
> Highly contentious issues absolutely should be left to the states to decide

Alas, if/when the Republican party gathers enough power to finally pass a federal abortion ban (or an indirect Fugitive Pregnancy Act) that "principle" will vanish into the memory-hole with all the rest. The minority who sincerely held the belief will be sidelined, again.

Another manifestation would be if state personnel and courts get conscripted into enforcing federal immigration policies.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bionicthrowaway on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:00PM (#42066402)
“Family separation at the border” started with Obama and the Democrats weaponized it to attack Trump. What did Trump do poorly during the pandemic? Operation Lightspeed was a success that the Democrats were happy to capitalize on. He correctly pointed to WIV as the like source of the outbreak, and despite the Democrats attempt to censor this in the media and online, it’s now the widely accepted view among the academics who don’t put politics above science.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Conscat on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:54AM (#42065182)
Appointing outwardly biased Supreme Court justices who prejudiced USA law against women and many minorities.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bluefirebrand on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:15PM (#42065553)
Arguably this stacking of the Supreme Court could have been prevented if Justices had retired when the Democrats still had control of appointing their replacements
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Shekelphile on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:17PM (#42066680)
No, nothing would have changed if that happened. Republicans have no qualms about overtly breaking the law and abandoning their duty and decorum. If they did then Garland would be a sitting SCJ and Gorsuch wouldn't.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bluefirebrand on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:20PM (#42071095)
If RBG had retired while Obama was still president, it would have been a Democrat appointment, no?

Am I missing something?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by adgjlsfhk1 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @09:46PM (#42072810)
yes. Scalia died in Feb 2016 (while Obama was president) and the senate refused to hold confirmation hearings on a successor until Trump took office in 2021.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by mrbombastic on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:55AM (#42065202)
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem and the U.S. recognizing illegal settlements as “legal” set the stage for Oct 7
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by rozap on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:00PM (#42065308)
I'm sure that situation be over with trump. And by over I mean that netanyahu will kill any and all remaining Palestinians and annex the strip and West Bank. Then the Zionists will set their eyes on Lebanon.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by loandbehold on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:55PM (#42068347)
Nah, the goal of Hamas has always been to unexist Israel. That's been literally in their charter since Hamas was founded.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SpaceNoodled on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:54AM (#42065167)
Spanish flu never happened in your timeline?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by randerson on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:15PM (#42065569)
A mistake he didn't seem to learn from, as he's said he'll appoint RFK (who is openly anti-vaccine) as being in charge of public health.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:02PM (#42065333)
Well, others probably wouldn't have fired the pandemic planning committee. Another one was created in 2022, but, as of 2024, Trump has said he'd get rid of that one too[1].

[1] https://time.com/6972022/donald-trump-transcript-2024-electi...

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TheAceOfHearts on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:01PM (#42065317)
This line of defense falls apart a bit when you add further context. It's my understanding that during his first term he was surrounded by many smart and experienced people who tampered down on Trump's worst urges. But for this election he made it an explicit goal to get rid of those people and put in place people who are more likely to be sycophantic and loyal to him.

There's literally dozens of people who worked for Trump during his previous administration that have come out against him since then.

Personally, when I read about the alternate elector scheme and the attempt to prevent Pence from certifying the 2020 election, that was sufficient to convince me that Trump poses a real risk.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:03PM (#42065361)
Yeah, I'm very concerned it's really only the grade A sycophants and zealots who have stuck around - the experts have fled.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:54AM (#42065180)
stacking our court with conservative justices, stacking other courts with his appointees who are already working to throw out his criminal cases. the rollback of roe.

it's a very fucking slippery slope and everyone is too concerned with "but muh gas prices!" to think critically about the macro situation.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by valval on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:13PM (#42065519)
What makes you think people haven’t thought about those things the same as you or more, and still disagree?

I think every little life saved is an absolute victory, and many people (as demonstrated) share my sentiment.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:21PM (#42065667)
That is an issue. You posses religious conditioning that makes you believe this. If you disagree with abortion that is fine, but your opinion/stance should not be projected on everyone else in the country. The problem with this situation is religious folks are so brainwashed they can't even comprehend a situation where "live and let live" is possible, because you all think that your way is right and everyone else is wrong.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bigstrat2003 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:33PM (#42065881)
> That is an issue. You posses religious conditioning that makes you believe this.

Abortion is not a religious issue, it is an ethical issue. Some religious people are fine with abortion, some atheists oppose it.

> If you disagree with abortion that is fine, but your opinion/stance should not be projected on everyone else in the country. The problem with this situation is religious folks are so brainwashed they can't even comprehend a situation where "live and let live" is possible, because you all think that your way is right and everyone else is wrong.

This argument is a completely unworkable argument and I have no idea why people think it will hold water. Abortion opponents believe that abortion is literal murder. You can't simply go "it's fine if you don't want to murder, but you shouldn't stop other people from murdering". I understand you disagree with the idea that abortion is murder, but you need to take that idea on directly rather than trying to paper it over and say "you need to live and let live".

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by subsection1h on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:20PM (#42066730)
> Abortion is not a religious issue, it is an ethical issue.

Every person I have interacted with in nearly half a century who has expressed support for the criminalization of all or most abortions believes in the existence of souls and believes that human fetuses have souls and that it's the presence of a soul that is the basis for personhood and a right to life. Please direct me to a real person who supports the criminalization of all or most abortions and who does not believe in souls because I want them to explain to me why an unintelligent human fetus that lacks a fully formed central nervous system and any activity in its cerebral cortex has personhood and a right to life while a pig does not.

By the way, it's funny how people who say that opposition to abortion has nothing to do with religion are always religious:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091407

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by IncreasePosts on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:26PM (#42068803)
I disagree that most people who are anti-abortion believe it is literal murder. More like "murder lite". Just ask them what the punishment for abortion should be for the doctor and woman, and then what the punishment should be for murdering a 1 year old. you'll get drastically different answers from I think 97% of people.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 7952 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:25PM (#42066856)
Another way to phrase it would be as self defense rather than murder. The baby is an unwanted intruder. And the only way to defend the mother is through the death of another person. And like self defense there are different interpretations of what rights each party has. And it is rare for anyone to be absolute in their support of the rights of one or the other party.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by valval on Thursday November 07, 2024 @11:57AM (#42078435)
You’ve invited the baby by having sex. It’s not an intruder in any capacity.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:38PM (#42065982)
> Abortion is not a religious issue, it is an ethical issue.

Says you. I see nothing ethically wrong with abortion.

Virtually every species of animal is known to kill their own young from time to time. Why should humans be held to a different standard? The earth is already overpopulated as-is.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by svieira on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:36PM (#42068028)
Also a large number of animals cannibalize the weak (chickens, for example). Now, I presume that you hold humans to a different standard for that behavior - why?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:13PM (#42069481)
I don’t. Humans are animals, too.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by svieira on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:42PM (#42073146)
Ah - well, at least you're consistent.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by noworriesnate on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:15PM (#42067708)
Just because people ate their own children during a siege doesn't mean it's morally acceptable.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by nixdev on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:35PM (#42065922)
> You posses religious conditioning that makes you believe this. > but your opinion/stance should not be projected on everyone else in the country.

Wow. Talk about projection. Roe, a case where the woman involved later admitted to lying about being raped, that case, the repeal of that case moves the opinion/stance back to the states, where it should be.

> they can't even comprehend a situation where "live and let live" is possible

Funny someone in the "I NEED TO KILL MY BABY" crowd would write something like this. You people really have zero self awareness.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:38PM (#42065969)
I do not value human life over any other life. Squirrels, frogs, birds, babies, they are all the same.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by justonenote on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:59PM (#42066394)
So you are saying given an mutually exclusive choice you would save the life of 2 frogs over 1 human baby?

If you really do believe this you are an outlier, and 99% of the population do not agree with you and would not want you setting any policy.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by whalesalad on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:14PM (#42066636)
I don't think that you are qualified to make these remarks.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by kaba0 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:37PM (#42065950)
Because people are morons
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by johnp314 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:05PM (#42065385)
"...anyone else would have handled it differently", yes, and very likely we would not have gotten the COVID vaccine as quickly as we did and hence Biden would not have been able to set us out on the road to the pandemics end (and been able to come out of his bunker). Who knows how much longer the pandemic would have lasted and how many more might have died had Trump not cut out the red tape and fast-tracked the pharm industry on the road to a cure.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Calavar on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:15PM (#42065566)
What red tape did Trump cut?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by adgjlsfhk1 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:55PM (#42066307)
you realize that Trump cut the CDC branch that worked in China (and other countries) to look for and contain novel diseases before they become pandemics right? if Trump hadn't been president, COVID probably would have been like Ebola or Sars1 where it kills a couple thousand people without becoming a pandemic
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lynndotpy on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:48PM (#42066177)
This is an ahistorical view of things.

Trump fired national security officials in charge of handling pandemics. Trump repeatedly claimed that covid was not a problem, and that it wouldn't come to the US, and then that it would disappear by April, and then easter, and so forth. He fought the CDC, NIAID. As we know now, he also sent test machines to Putin for his personal use while they were in short supply in the United States.

This pandemic was rightfully and widely compared to the 1920 pandemic, as well as the SARS scare in the 00s. We are very, very lucky that the SARS scare got a lot of the legwork done in advance on the RNA vaccines.

It's hard to imagine any United States candidate handling it worse.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by LexGray on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:52PM (#42066249)
Attempted disassembly of the center of disease control which led to less Covid lead time.

Attempted disassembly of EPA and FDA in attempts to raise employment in exchange for consumer safety.

Sale of federal lands that were preserves for future generations.

Picking a Supreme Court based on politics rather than law.

Preferring Totalitarian regimes when it came to diplomacy and snubbing our allies.

Trying to use the FBI as his personal attack dogs.

At least off the top of my head. Last term his goal was to undo a hundred years of progress as a constitutional progress.

This term? I have no clue what his goals are. I just hope he lives because the VP Vance appears to support that project 2025.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by tootie on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:01PM (#42066434)
He indirectly ended abortion rights and presidential criminal liability. And while it wasn't a single bad event, he spent 4 years making climate policy worse. More directly he attempted to extort a foreign leader for political gain and sponsored an insurrection to stay in power that resulted in loss of life.