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Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:45AM (#42060541)
> It should, but it doesn't.

A flight or bus ticket to California or Colorado for a once-in-a-lifetime service costs multiple orders of magnitude less than the recurring cost of groceries and basic goods.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by ryukoposting on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:49AM (#42060604)
Your wife dying because your flight got delayed, and you being imprisoned for trying to save her, are also once in a lifetime events.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:51AM (#42060635)
How many people die because they didn't obtain an abortion in the nick of time? Is this normally an urgent service (outside of legally time-limited states?)

How many people struggle to afford buying groceries?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by arghwhat on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:04AM (#42060818)
Looking purely at the cases where an abortion is required for health reasons:

Emergency abortions required for health reasons are often needed when things go wrong, and when that is the case it might need to be performed either soon or immediately. Being in a state that opposes it might delay the decision in ways that injure or kill the mother.

Non-emergency abortions required for health reasons - that is, when there is significant risk but it is not unfolding yet - also happen but being in a state that opposes abortions at any level in general might make it difficult - doctors not willing to suggest it to avoid risk to their business, those around you refusing the need and convincing you that it would be bad, not to mention having to plan a medical trip to a foreign location to get it done - and in turn put the mother at risk of injury or death through inaction.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:09AM (#42060890)
Ok, how many people die or commit suicide because they cannot afford basic goods and services?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by arghwhat on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:29PM (#42065798)
I’m sorry, but I don’t see the relevance of your question.

Does it somehow make it less relevant to fix a cause of death because more people die of other unrelated causes?

Far more people die in accidents than any other causes of death in the U.S., seemingly only beat by cancer and heart disease. That doesn’t make every other cause of death any less troubling or worth fixing, and it certainly does not mean that one should hold back existing treatments for “lesser” deaths or injuries.

Any avoidable injury or premature death is one too many.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by creato on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:56AM (#42060689)
There have been several cases that made the news in the last few weeks in the wake of new abortion bans, e.g. https://www.texastribune.org/2024/11/01/nevaeh-crain-death-t...
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:58AM (#42060721)
These edge cases are tragic, yes, and shouldn't happen.

Economic hardship results in orders of magnitude more all-cause mortality, making it the more important problem to solve.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by adrianN on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:03AM (#42060804)
I find it sad that this is framed as an either-or problem.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:08AM (#42060881)
We have a two-party system: this is the natural conclusion of applied game theory and is unfortunate.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by willsmith72 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:38AM (#42063939)
if you believe tariffs and digging are magic pills to an economy, sure (one which in the past year is actually doing extremely well)
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by amarcheschi on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:12AM (#42060928)
How many people struggling to afford buying groceries voted for the guy who promised tax cuts for the rich?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by antifa on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:11AM (#42060912)
It's a new thing Texas invented.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by eadmund on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:30AM (#42061978)
I believe that abortion to save the mother’s life is legal in all 50 states, every territory and the federal district.

There are a small number of women who have died due to their physicians and/or hospitals misinterpreting the law, just as there are patients who die every day due to physicians’ and hospitals’ mistakes. Those are issues which need to be addressed.

But — so far as I know — right now there is nowhere in the country where if a pregnant woman’s life is threatened by her pregnancy then she cannot legally obtain a medical abortion.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by shadowfacts on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:31AM (#42063823)
In principle, that is true. But that is simply not the reality on the ground. States ban abortion with such exceedingly narrow exceptions that doctors and hospitals delay until the point of actively endangering women.

Four deaths, reported on by one outlet, in the past couple months:

- A Texas teenager died after going to three emergency rooms and being misdiagnosed and denied treatment: https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-...

- Another Texas woman died after a miscarriage as a result of doctors not treating her due to the state's fetal heartbeat law: https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-mis...

- A Georgia woman with chronic health conditions, which can make pregnancy highly risky but did not exempt her from Georgia's abortion ban, died of complications from a medication abortion: https://www.propublica.org/article/candi-miller-abortion-ban...

- Another Georgia woman died because doctors delayed 20 hours after she arrived at a hospital—9 hours after she was diagnosed with sepsis—before treating her: https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-ambe...

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by nop_slide on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:00AM (#42064294)
> right now there is nowhere in the country where if a pregnant woman’s life is threatened by her pregnancy then she cannot legally obtain a medical abortion.

This literally happened very recently

https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-...

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by eadmund on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:35AM (#42064853)
From that very article:

> Texas’s abortion ban threatens prison time for interventions that end a fetal heartbeat, whether the pregnancy is wanted or not. It includes exceptions for life-threatening conditions …

And from the actual text of the law (https://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/HB0...), abortion is permitted when ‘in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, the pregnant female on whom the abortion is performed, induced, or attempted has a life-threatening physical condition aggravated by, caused by, or arising from a pregnancy that places the female at risk of death or poses a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless the abortion is performed or induced.’ That is a very broad exception.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by sn on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:40PM (#42066019)
The doctors had to be so certain that it was life threatening before acting that once they decided it was life-threatening, she was already going to die no matter what they did. And this is not an isolated incident.

The law has to allow for more uncertainty for the carve-out to be effective.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by daedrdev on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @01:34PM (#42067034)
This might blow your mind, but for a condition to truly be life treating some people will probably die even if they have treatment, otherwise by definition it would not be a life threatening condition.

For example doctors have to wait for sepsis to actually occur before treatment, thus some will die because they loose to the infection

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by kaitai on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @12:44PM (#42066105)
Unfortunately as a practical and legal matter that is false. First, physician incentives are aligned to deny care: they have a defense for denying care ("my lawyer isn't clear that I have authority to do this") and the woman has no recourse. Second, there is a simple matter of skill and availability. Fewer facilities allow abortion; fewer OB/GYNs are skilled at doing it safely. In my pregnancy I wanted a perfectly reasonable and legal thing supported by medical evidence and was unable to find a doctor in the state to provide it (vaginal breech birth as opposed to forced C-section).

When you are pregnant, and particularly if you are experiencing complications, you do not have time to shop around and convince people and schedule in advance and all that. You are constrained by the spatiotemporal availability of a skilled medical professional.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by CalRobert on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:52AM (#42060637)
You are absolutely right, but there are still a lot of people who can't pony up the cost of flight, lodging, etc. at short notice in a stressful situation.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:54AM (#42060671)
I think not being able to afford food and basic services may make it more difficult to sock away the $500 required for this edge case.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by bigfudge on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:10AM (#42060897)
But inflation has been a global/western phenomena post Russian invasion and not unique to the US. Your economy has outperformed the developed averages. Non existent dem messaging on it is inexplicable to me… from a uk or European perspective your economic performance under Biden was enviable.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by DFHippie on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:48AM (#42062221)
As a US citizen, it is frustrating but not inexplicable.

The vast majority of the voters who had the opportunity, patience, ability, and inclination to follow an argument like this -- the inflation spike was global and the US did better than its peers -- voted for Harris.

Opportunity is a key part of the problem: many voters live in walled informational gardens guarded by propagandists. The only messages that can penetrate into the gardens are short, emotional rather than rational, and lacking in nuance. They are indistinguishable from the constant barrage of lies and disinformation these people are exposed to.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by kragen on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:49AM (#42060594)
If you don't get arrested when you get off the return flight.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by FrustratedMonky on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:01AM (#42060776)
"bus"???

Isn't one of the proposals from Republicans is to ban inter-state travel for pregnant women?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by FireBeyond on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:33PM (#42067967)
One of the southern states introduced a new crime, "Conspiracy to commit abortion", which specifically targeted the idea of traveling out of state, researching abortion providers outside the state, and aiding someone with transportation, lodging, or financials around terminating a pregnancy.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by flakeoil on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:05AM (#42060835)
I hope you will enjoy your flight to another state the next time you are sick and need surgery.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:11AM (#42060909)
Fortunately, I'll be able to afford it because I won't be pumping my entire paycheck into social programs, groceries, and supporting a massive population of unskilled illegal immigrants.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by anigbrowl on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:19AM (#42064590)
Who do you think farms your groceries?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by 15155 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:28AM (#42074402)
Members of my extended family, mostly using automated and mechanized agriculture.

There are zero illegal immigrants employed on any midwestern farm I have ever visited, known, etc. A $500,000 GPS-guided combine works better.