> Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet.

Can you elaborate? Thinking of setting up a MacMini for my kids but worried about lack of gaming options for them (I haven't gamed on a Mac in a dozen years and the state of gaming on MacOS was sad back then).

There's a lot of Mac games on Steam, Apple Arcade, and Battle.net these days. Anything that isn't supported there, I generally use Xbox streaming or GeForce Now streaming.

Here's a list of my most played games on my Mac in the last couple of years:

WoW, Hearthstone, Dota 2, League of Legends, Thronefall, Vampire Survivors, Baldur's Gate 3, Cult of the Lamb, Balatro, Death Must Die, Terraria, Dave the Diver, Mechabellum, Space Haven, Hades 2, Peglin, Stellaris, RimWorld, Dead Cells, Total War: Warhammer 2, Valheim, Civilization 6, Slay the Spire, Don't Starve Together, Cities: Skylines, Oxygen Not Included, SUPERHOT.

Games I play through GeForce Now:

Fortnite, Diablo 4, WoW, Apex Legends, Halo Infinite, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077

The point of such an annoying long comment is to demonstrate that there is a very substantial Mac gaming library. The problem is that a new shiny game comes out that doesn't support Mac and you don't want to be the ONE guy in your group who can't play it because you're on Mac. The latest one for me is Deadlock. Not on GeForce Now, not on console, not on Mac... so I needed to get a Windows PC.

But if you're a kid and just looking for a general gaming machine, it plays a ton of cool stuff.

Thanks for all the info! Great to hear about the availability.

I noticed the other comments mentioned GeForceNow over _ethernet_. What connection speeds do you typically need to play these games over GeforceNow or similar.

GeForce Now https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/

nvidias cloud gaming offering. it works pretty well

Geforce Now is pretty much the only still viable game streaming service, you can run it on pretty much anything.

The free tier is mostly crap (you only get to play if no paid users are using the capacity pretty much), but the paid tiers go from good to excellent.

Its main selling point is that you don't need to buy games for it separately, you can use your existing Steam catalog for example.

Xbox cloud gaming also works great over ethernet on Mac

Isn't steamdeck a better option for this use case?

I have a Steam Deck, Asus ROG Ally, M2 Mac Mini, M1 Pro laptop, M2 Max laptop (work). All of this runs on either an LG C3 42" OLED or a 34" 1440p ultrawide.

Linux GeForce Now can only do 720p or 1080p, can't remember which. Also, it's just kind of laggy in desktop mode. The Macs run so much smoother.

My current "main" desktop is actually my Asus ROG Ally. I use one USB C hub that is capable of 4k120hz, and I can move it between my Mac laptops and Asus ROG Ally very seamlessly.

The problem for me is Windows. Yesterday my start menu stopped loading for some reason and required a full reboot. Sometimes it refuses to go to sleep. Sometimes it refuses to come out of sleep. Sometimes a Windows update kicks off in the middle of a game and it slows everything to a crawl. Windows drives me crazy these days!

> The problem for me is Windows.

Perennial truth since XP

2000, XP, and 7 were actually pretty solid releases of Windows.

Vista was okay after hardware caught up and it got a few patches.

10 was a huge improvement over 8.x, but 11 has had a lot of bugginess for me, particularly related to the new Start menu.

> Windows drives me crazy these days!

At least it boots.

I purchase a Surface Pro 8 a year ago or something, thinking Windows would surely work better than usual when it is Microsoft's own hardware too.

But no, yesterday it got stuck in a boot loop, after a Windows update broke the audio drivers somehow. The Windows logs/reliability report can just tell me it "shut down abnormally" without any technical details what so ever.

I still have to use Windows on my desktop because of Ableton, but I'll never purchase any Microsoft hardware again, and as soon as I can, I'll run Ableton on Linux like the rest of my software.

Tbf I've had the same thing with macos doing stuff like randomly recreating my keychain on login and other weirdness.

As a developer really I can work on Linux or Windows or macos. Long as I'm getting paid. Tools in the toolbox.

can you share the USB C hub? i need one of these and can't find one that makes it easy to swap between mac & gaming rig

Posted in another comment:

These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-...

Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...

What's the model of that USB C hub? Looking for one that I can switch between Windows and Mac (and maybe Linux)

These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-...

Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...

Get rid of Windows on it! Digital Foundry put out a great video on this exact process the other day, weighing the pros and cons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWRCrGoXV0

Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes - you're really better off using Linux where anticheat isn't concerned. Even on the Ally.

> Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes

They're great OSes for consumers who don't really work on their computers, and just want something that caters to the lowest common denominator.

For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way. You can set it up and leave it as-is, with only security updates, and everything keeps working the same way, basically forever.

I've tried to set up an experience like that on both macOS and Windows, but eventually, the company will find a way of forcing an update on your, intentionally or not.

This isn't really the case anymore, Linux (specifically SteamOS and its kin) serve the console-like market very well. Arguably better than Windows.

Even for non-Gaming use cases this idea is a bit dated. Printing is by far the best experience on Linux. The "tweaking" that you need to do, that every Windows/MacOS user claims, isn't really a thing these days - sans NVIDIA (I'm not sure what the current status is, but it was bjorked somewhat recently). Sure, if you want to go beyond what Windows/MacOS can offer then tweaking my be required, but the current UIs are extremely comprehensive.

I had a 80yr old lady up and running in one day with PopOS. If that's not lowest common denominator, I don't know what is.

Professional work can be hit and miss. Depends on how draconian your workplace software is.

Thank you so much for telling me that I am actually not managing my non-profit on my Mac. I was convinced I was working every day on a Mac in a business setting, but I guess I was mistaken.

What does "work on their computer" mean to you? I suspect it's not what it means to the vast majority of people.

> For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way.

I really hope you're not expecting anyone to take you seriously with this. On principle I get what you're saying but in practice no one who works as a professional in any field has the time (or expertise) to be worried about configuring their operating system.

As a Linux evangelist who begrudgingly daily drives a Mac, this kind of attitude is what does us in. It's the cocksure "akshually Linux is best" even when it materially, experientially, just isn't.

Denial is not a design ethos.

Most professionals use only a handful of software and don't really care about the OS other than what the OS should do (file management, connecting to the internet, launching software,...). Apple and Microsoft insists on doing other stuff that impedes you while not allowing you to do basic stuff you want. The main issue with Linux is hardware support (which no one other than the manufactures can solve properly) and professional development (The distributions are great, but monolithic development like FreeBSD would have been better).

Linux is best because it lets you use your computer for whatever workflow you need.

What stuff is Apple doing that is keeping me from doing what I want?

I think it's a good thing for 99% of computer users to not be able to just run any random software they download off of the internet. Gatekeeper, XProtect, and notarization are unfortunately necessary in the hostile computing environment we live in today. Aunt Tilly will happily download "PhotoShop" from that sketchy Russian Warez site and infect her machine if these protections didn't exist.

For power users that know what they're doing it is trivial to just use something like Homebrew or to bypass these protections on a case by case basis as needed. I can also run software in a Linux VM quite easily as well for open source software that isn't well maintained on macOS.

This is about using the computer in a professional settings. You don't go and download Photoshop randomly (and if you do, that's irresponsible). But you install Windows Pro and there's a slew of random tiles and widgets everywhere. And you can't remove Apple apps (Like TV or Music) from the M series computers.

I’d argue those protections are even more important in professional settings. You probably know how to properly obtain third party software in a safe manner, but Tina in graphic design probably doesn’t.

Regarding the built in Apple apps, I’m not sure what is gained by removing them other than a negligible amount of disk space. If you remove them from the dock they become out of sight out of mind. Same thing with the pre populated widgets and tiles on Windows.

I'll take him seriously on it. MacOS and Windows are terrible for professional purposes, for a number of reasons:

1. Requires Windows Pro or Apple Developer license to unlock full featureset

2. Cannot reasonably disable targeted advertising or ad data collection from either OS

3. Neither come with package managers and do not respect third-party packaging either

4. Can be "managed" insofar as your buggy CPM software allows, often glitched by the OS itself

5. The experience is always getting worse since Apple and Microsoft share a united front of making people spend as much money on useless shit as humanly possible

Now, that's not to say nobody should use these OSes - certainly people are locked into them for some purposes. But as a programmer it's genuinely hard for me to be productive on these OSes because I end up fighting them just for everyday, non-programming purposes.

I think it's entirely possible that MacOS and Windows can be inherently terrible experiences while also being mandatory for certain workflows.

I consider my usage of my Macs to be "professional."

1. An Apple Developer license is only required for distributing software in App Stores and notarizing.

2. I'm not sure what ads you're talking about in macOS. I've only ever seen them in the completely optional App Store.

3. Installing Homebrew is literally a one liner. I've never used it, but Macports appears to be similarly easy as an alternative.

4. I can't speak to this point, so I'll take your word for it.

5. I only started using macOS since the Apple Silicon era, but as far as I'm concerned the experience just keeps getting better and better. Every release of macOS has added features I enjoy and use constantly. Just the seamless integration between all of the Apple products in my house was worth switching from my previous mix of Windows, Linux, and Android.

I'm a professional who is often forced to suffer Windows nonsense. At work Windows routinely wastes my time with absolute bullshit I couldn't care less about and which makes me negative dollars, even though it is basically a glorified Chrome launcher.

Professionals should absolutely take it seriously because time spent updating Windows or even just waiting around while it gets its shit together is time you could have spent doing your job and making money. In fact, Windows and its spontaneous updates with obnoxious focus stealing prompts are major risks to the integrity of your work and might cause you to have to redo it from scratch, lowering the value of your time even further.

Linux boots in less than ten seconds and is already ready to use. There are distributions for all levels of expertise, and if there's an IT department it should be managing those boxes anyway. All that's missing is the Microsoft Office suite and in the end that's what the Windows vs Linux battle always boils down to. People put up with it because they just need muh Excel.

They listed WoW, DotA and League of Legends—I’m guessing, but the last two seem likely to have anti-cheat issues, right?

Vanguard AC is indeed incompatible with linux, but maybe that's for the better...

On SteamDeck Geforce Now is limited to 1080p, due to NVIDIA being a tiny indie company with no resources to make a native client.

This is, of course, a non issue as the resolution of the Steam Deck is 1280x800.

Edit: I am silly. Of course, people mean hooking it up to a bigger screen.

Assuming you don't want to use it for all the various other things you can also use a Mac for - sure, maybe.

It’s smaller and has their own chip so I should hope it’s no more expensive.

My Intel Mac Mini is still my "tv content" machine. Since it has no problem driving my Samsung OLED TV and keeping up with typical video framerates I suspect I will be holding on to it for many more years to come.

Are these games available on OSX? Or are you somehow booting Windows?

(Apologies if this seems like a stupid question. I've not played games for a very long time, mainly because most stuff doesn't seem to be available on Macs).

It's not a dumb question. I actually used to use an iMac 27" with an Nvidia 680 that I would boot into Bootcamp / Windows for my primary gaming computer. I covered it in "built, not bought" stickers at Quakecon one year.

You can't do x86/x64 Windows on M-series Macs without emulation and it is generally a poor experience. There's a few things like Crossover, Parallels, etc that can help you run Windows games.

But I have found that most of the games I care about are either Mac native or on GeForce Now at this point. There's a surprisingly large game catalog on Mac now.

So the short answer is that some of them run on some sort of Windows compatibility layer, some are Mac native, some I stream. But most of my favorites run native on Mac.

To be honest, there are so many games to play these days that I don't mind missing out on a few titles. Valorant is a good example of a game that I can't play on Mac, GFN, or Crossover. But it's OK, I still have CS2.

Whisky also does a great job at running Windows games with minimal setup / overhead.

I'm wondering if it might actually be easier to install Asahi Linux (or some other distro) on Apple Silicon for gaming via Proton, until Game Porting Toolkit is adopted more.

Yes — World of Warcraft, League of Legends and DotA 2 all have native macOS ports. WoW got an Apple Silicon port relatively recently IIRC (last expansion).

WoW was probably the first game that was ported to the ARM architecture (2020), so it's not that recent.

All those games listed have native Apple Silicon Mac ports now.

Only WoW, LoL and Dota are being translated through the Rosetta.

WoW itself is actually native Apple Silicon, but I believe the launcher uses Rosetta.

In my experience with gaming on Macs, even when there is a native Mac port of a particular game, the experience is inferior to Windows more often than not. Many of them don't do 4K properly, for example (you get everything rendered at half-res in fullscreen). Things like Cmd+Tab don't work reliably, either.

It will make me a mac owner for the first time in 25 years.

I was just looking at a mac book air yesterday but I just can't get over the complete ripoff of a memory upgrade from the base model.

16 gig starting at $599. I honestly don't need to know anything else to buy one.

I got the Mac mini m1 as my first Apple computer recently (used). It’s really cool. It never heats up ever

My Mac mini M1 is still such a great computer and I really don't need to upgrade, but with the spec bump up to 16GB of RAM, $230 trade in value that Apple is telling me they'll give me, and the $499 education pricing (I'm currently doing a Masters degree) it's too tempting to pass up.

My first thought was similar, though followed quickly by "...but it's Apple, so what's the catch?" The relevant extra things to know are that the SSD is soldered, there are no slots for extra SSDs, and choosing a sensible (1TB) drive is >4X the price of buying similar storage at retail. Still a no from me, then.

(The only thing I do often that's CPU-limited is compiling, being faster at that saves me maybe a few minutes in a full working day; I don't care. I am frequently limited by RAM and I really hate shuffling things around to make space on drives.)

remember a good monitor. scaling is kinda annoying on mac's, with lower resolution (under 4K)

If you wanted a MacBook Air, that was also upgraded to 16GB of RAM for the base model for the same price.