News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:16PM (#41957398)
I don't understand, I can make whatever software I want, for whatever purpose, and it can still be impactful, depending on the user. It feels way more impactful than anything I can make in Factorio or similar.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by dasil003 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:17PM (#41957402)
Not everything is about impact.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:21PM (#41957434)
Perhaps not, but my fun can in part be traced to impact.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by averageRoyalty on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:24PM (#41957469)
Are the FPS games you play also about impact? You seem to have set yourself a different bar for 'fun' for this title (or genre?) alone.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:31PM (#41957511)
Of course not. I think you misunderstand, if a game is too similar to real life, I am unsure why I should play it, whereas if it is fairly different, such as an FPS, it becomes much more fun for me. My question is primarily on the former, of why people seem to play a game that basically is like work but has no benefit for them. If it's fun for them, then that's fine, but my question more, why is it fun for them in the first place? That's really what I want to figure out.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by johannes1234321 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @08:19PM (#41958818)
It's fun to solve problems. How do I optimize this sub-factory? - That's the same fun as "how do I optimize this function" but instead of a green light from my test runner one gets a colorful display of a working factory with a visible result. The fact that I reduced memory usage of that function by 10% I don't see in that way. And probably both both are equal in benefit to humanity's progress (zero)
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by dgacmu on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:02PM (#41959035)
Sometimes it's fun to do things when there's no real world consequence attached to failure and experimentation even if the mechanics are similar to something we do for work.

I sometimes do project euler puzzles for fun. I'm a CS professor - this starts to feel kinda close to my job. But it's relaxing and there's no pressure and no one is affected when I screw up; I just get to keep kicking at it, or put it down. The freedom makes a big difference.

The "solving an interesting problem" part of my job is the part I love. It's the other stuff I need a break from sometimes. :)

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by Aeolun on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:15PM (#41959098)
I think I can answer this to some extend. I kinda feel like you do, that playing factorio is time that I could more productively spend on side projects (especially considering how much time it costs), but I don’t kill bugs in side projects, don’t build train lines, don’t build spaceships. I play factorio because the dopamine hit when something comes together is nearly the same, but the actions I take are different enough to stay fun.

Also, I just think it’s good to not look at something that’s too much like work once in a while. Even if factorio is closer than many other things.

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by Aeolun on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:12AM (#41960703)
Did someone really downvote my opinion? That’s just, like, pretty demotivating.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by duckmysick on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:24PM (#41957462)
> I can make whatever software I want, for whatever purpose

Such freedom is extremely rare when you get paid for writing or maintaining software.

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:27PM (#41957487)
It depends on whether you make software for a living or for OSS. One does not preclude the other, even if one is rarer. Given my situation, as I had initially stated, I am part of the latter. Even still, were I the former, I still don't get why one would work "for free" basically, especially in terms of a game versus real life.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by 0xB31B1B on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:43AM (#41960837)
Even oss has users to satisfy.

If you’re building oss with no users, or just for yourself, you’re functionally doing something more like art than coding in terms of how you prioritize and execute.

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by wiseowise on Sunday October 27, 2024 @02:11AM (#41960214)
You’re not playing Factorio for a living, are you? Supposedly we’re talking about your free time.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by matheusmoreira on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:04AM (#41960663)
Here's to hoping things like Patreon and GitHub Sponsors make it more common. These platforms could truly change the way things are done in the software world. Given enough sponsors, I could quit my job and focus on free software every day.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by delichon on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:26PM (#41957481)
This behavior is known as "play". Many of us find it stimulating. If it doesn't work for you you have my sympathy.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:28PM (#41957495)
I play, just not in the same terms as my work. For example, I shoot bad guys, but I also know people in the military who refuse to play FPS games.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by delichon on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:45PM (#41957599)

  When I asked Kovařík about this, he brought up Euro Truck Simulator, a wilfully mundane game about hauling cargo. The developers, who are friends of his, once told him that many of their most enthusiastic players are ... truckers. Truckers who spend their time off from their trucking jobs pretending to do more trucking ... a lot of people actually enjoy the work they do. They just don’t always enjoy their jobs that much, because of all the things that get in the way of the work.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by Animats on Saturday October 26, 2024 @05:04PM (#41957716)
There's a whole genre of such games.

- Modern Farming. Has really good working models of expensive farming equipment. There are videos of real farmers playing it.

- Lawnmower Simulator. Yes, really. Mow enough lawns, get a better mower.

- Power Wash Simulator. Not kidding.[1]

The first game in this category was probably the famous Desert Bus.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5G-2qTupCk

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by DonHopkins on Saturday October 26, 2024 @05:06PM (#41957725)
If you like Power Wash Simulator, you'll LOVE the relaxing meditative idle game Paint Drying Simulator, and the exquisite organic fractal patina of its sequel, Paint Peeling Simulator. ;)
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by 0points on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:48AM (#41960130)
Then there's the PC Building Simulator
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by satvikpendem on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:55PM (#41957659)
Good for them, fortunately I'm not a trucker.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by lupusreal on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:33PM (#41959176)
Fortunate for the truckers..
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by hluska on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:51PM (#41959249)
Life is way too short to be boring.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by bowsamic on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:42AM (#41960112)
It’s boring to play CoD instead of Factorio?
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by hluska on Sunday October 27, 2024 @07:08AM (#41961587)
No, it’s boring to use cheap personal attacks (like I responded to) instead of actually engaging. If I wanted to read that, I could find it in YouTube comments.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by bowsamic on Sunday October 27, 2024 @09:35AM (#41962517)
"Good for them, fortunately I'm not a trucker."

How is that a personal attack?

Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by taneq on Sunday October 27, 2024 @07:23AM (#41961683)
I read that as "to play CAD" and was like "nah, Fusion's fun too". :D
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by jhbadger on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:51PM (#41959490)
A surprisingly number of airline pilots are flight simulator aficionados.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by johnisgood on Sunday October 27, 2024 @07:39AM (#41961777)
I was going to say this, VATSIM is full of real pilots.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by kfrzcode on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:35PM (#41957539)
I've found myself in playtime with Claude 3.5 lately; it scratches both itches very satisfyingly.
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by johnisgood on Sunday October 27, 2024 @07:41AM (#41961785)
You and I both, and I actually have something to show up after!
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by phreeza on Sunday October 27, 2024 @02:08PM (#41964386)
What do you do with it?
Re:How 'Factorio' Seduced Silicon Valley by kfrzcode on Monday November 04, 2024 @01:34AM (#42039076)
I figured out a good cadence; first threads discuss a schema and sketch/iterate over an ERD and C4 diagram. Then we have threads to build modules on top of a framework. It knows if we're working with python/typer/pydantic or go or typescript and various frameworks/design decisions... Key is keeping topics separate so contexts don't overrun. And be explicit to say "don't re-generate code just talk high level" etc.