News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by Sabinus on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:41PM (#41919463)
If carbon emissions were taxed I would have no issue with this. Ostensibly, the rich have earned their greater share of the national wealth/output (including CO2 emission budget), as long as they are paying fairly for it.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by candiddevmike on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:00PM (#41919638)
> the rich have earned their greater share

Source?

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by ipaddr on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:12PM (#41919725)
Should they have more votes in elections? Money can only buy things that are for sale.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by ribosometronome on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:20PM (#41919779)
Well, he's not proposing letting Zuck buy anything, he's saying we should be taxing Zuck so that his buying of stuff isn't also destroying the planet. Being able to buy stuff that negatively affects the planet isn't really in question by most people.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by psadauskas on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:21PM (#41919786)
Zuckerberg made ~$10,000,000/hr last year (source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-zuckerberg-made-around-9...)

Do you think the "greater share" he "earned" is really 10,000x the average tech worker? Or 640,000x the minimum wage?

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by qaq on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:49PM (#41919957)
So when FB stock tanked and he lost a ton of money does it mean he was making minus whatever number of millions per hour. Maybe converting asset valuation to hourly earnings is not that great of an idea. Anyone can buy FB shares and get same upside Zuck gets.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by kortilla on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @08:01PM (#41920037)
He is not given an hourly salary like that. The figure is based on value appreciation of a company he owns a significant part of.

If someone had 10,000 tons of gold, they would have made a similar “hourly wage” this last year.

This has nothing to do with earning anything. It’s about value appreciation of an already held asset.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by BurningFrog on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:33PM (#41919855)
Empirically, that is how much money people have voluntarily given him.

He was clearly worth the money for those people.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by jdminhbg on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:51PM (#41919973)
He's definitely 10,000x better at running a social media conglomerate than I am, if that's what you're asking.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:50PM (#41919962)
> Do you think the "greater share" he "earned" is really 10,000x the average tech worker?

Yes. It doesn't seem unreasonable to the point of dismissal to consider that he's changed the world to within many orders of magnitude of that which the avererage person, particularly the average minimum-wage earner, does. That doesn't mean he has. But the number being four or five orders of magnitude doesn't strike me as damning.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @08:25PM (#41920219)
> he's changed the world to within many orders of magnitude of that which the ... the average minimum-wage earner, does.

Golly.

He changed the world, so now he gets to burn it?

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @09:00PM (#41920488)
> He changed the world, so now he gets to burn it?

Non sequitur. A college student having a pet can be reasonable. That doesn't mean they can do whatever they like with it.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:02PM (#41921347)
I do not get your point.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:08PM (#41921385)
Why does something being reasonable to have mean it’s okay to destroy it?
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @12:48AM (#41921919)
> Why does something being reasonable to have mean it’s okay to destroy it?

Yes. That is my point

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @10:49AM (#41925604)
Make the money = reasonable

Destroy the world = unreasonable

Nobody is saying the second but you. They are unrelated, hence the non sequitur.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @02:28PM (#41927917)
> Destroy the world = unreasonable

Burning tonnes of carbon in your private jet

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @02:37PM (#41928003)
How much carbon do you think is reasonable? Do you think it matters if they offset it?
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:20PM (#41930619)
> How much carbon do you think is reasonable?

Zero for your private jet

> Do you think it matters if they offset it?

What does that even mean, if not crooked lies and imaginary foolishness?

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by consteval on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @12:32PM (#41926670)
The key here is "changed the world". In a capitalist economy, there's no rule anywhere saying the change has to be good or productive. Often, the best way to make money is to do purposefully destructive things.

For example, consider the Tobacco industry. While yes they did, and somewhat still do, make a lot of money, they did not create any value. They siphoned it - they exchanged the purchase of tobacco for the cost of healthcare. I'm speculating, but if you were calculating the communal cost, that is the profits of tobacco minus the healthcare costs, I'm positive it would be negative.

Therefore, tobacco has a negative value onto the world, but it is profitable. The profit is a facade, that money is really stolen. This demostrates one of the core flaws with current economic systems - you can create profit without creating value. You can simply move money around and get some profit, and you can even destroy money and yet make money.

Keep in mind Facebook gets it's profit via advertising. The money they make is due to manipulating people to spend their money on things they wouldn't otherwise buy. The analysis is difficult, and I'm not saying what they're doing is bad per se, but the actual value they create is certainly debatable.

All that is to say, simply changing the world is a meaningless metric. Certainly, I can change the world for the worse, if I want, and profit in-between. In such a scenario not only am I not equivalent to a janitor, I actually create less value. While making orders of magnitude more money.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by YetAnotherNick on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:58PM (#41919621)
The news title is such wrong. They meant billioniares who have share in greenhouse gas emitting companies have million times more than average shareholder. It's not related to emitting greenhouse gas.

The problem with carbon tax is the opposite. It would disproportionately tax poor higher. The carbon usage doesn't go up by 100x if the income increases by 100x.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by kelseyfrog on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:47PM (#41919946)
Except not all carbon taxes are equal. Taxing investments[1] in carbon emitting investments is such a proposal.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgA0UgSEDjI (2m22s)

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by specialist on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @08:29AM (#41924333)
What's the alternative(s)?

IIRC carbon tax would be at point of use? So biggest "hard to transition" polluters like metal, concrete, electricity would pay most?

IIRC 2, most carbon tax advocates are also huge into investing in public transit, EVs, weatherization, heat pumps. In fact, BIL and IRA stipulate 40% apportionment. So doesn't that mitigate the regressiveness of a carbon tax?

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by YetAnotherNick on Thursday October 24, 2024 @06:59AM (#41934278)
> So biggest "hard to transition" polluters like metal, concrete, electricity would pay most?

No, the people using metal, concrete, electricity would pay it. It's not like the profitability of industry goes down over tax.

Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by nawgz on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:59PM (#41919628)
It's not like money can meaningfully reduce carbon in the atmosphere at this point in time, so it's pretty much impossible to "earn" the "right" to this type of destructive externality.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by charliea0 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:08PM (#41919703)
You can remove carbon from the atmosphere for $1000 per ton. That would be a reasonable emission tax.
Re:Meta Bans Accounts Tracking Private Jets for Zuckerberg, ... by worik on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @08:23PM (#41920201)
> If carbon emissions were taxed I would have no issue with this.

Really?

> the rich have earned their greater share of the national wealth/output (including CO2 emission budget),

Do you think so?

The future of our organised society is threatened by this. Is that OK if you are rich and have "earned [sic] their greater share"

Think about it....