News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by killingtime74 on Thursday October 03, 2024 @09:31PM (#41736927)
I specifically bought a robot vacuum with less sensors (no camera) for this reason. Why does it need camera if bump sensors and Lidar already works, it's asking for trouble.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by dikkechill on Friday October 04, 2024 @07:35AM (#41740310)
How did you do your research and which one did you eventually buy?
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by iammiles on Friday October 04, 2024 @11:22AM (#41742350)
This sounds like the Roborock S series. I went with lidar over camera because it can run in any lighting condition and I don’t have a need for poop detection.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Rebelgecko on Saturday October 05, 2024 @06:18PM (#41753330)
Not OP, but I'm a big fan of the Vacuum Wars YouTube channel (they have text summaries on their website too)
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by MBCook on Friday October 04, 2024 @05:52PM (#41745888)
Some manufacturers use cameras instead of LiDAR (iRobot, for example).

Others use both. LiDAR for walls, cameras for object identification below the LiDAR plane, directly in front of the robot. That’s how the fancy ones avoid socks or cables or other small things.

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by supportengineer on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @01:59PM (#41780019)
This might be OK for a vacuum cleaner, but nobody in their right mind would choose cameras over LiDAR for important applications.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by NRv9tR on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @04:52PM (#41781715)
If I understand correctly Tesla is/has removed LIDAR and uses computer vision for most/all of their self driving.

https://bdtechtalks.com/2021/06/28/tesla-computer-vision-aut...

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by bonestamp2 on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:34PM (#41782929)
I don't think Tesla ever used LIDAR and the article confirms they don't think they will need to. I believe they removed ultrasonic sensors though, maybe that's what you're thinking of.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Alupis on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @05:20PM (#41781937)
Yes, perhaps the single-most controversial decision Tesla has made regarding FSD.

Everyone else uses LIDAR in some form. Tesla's cameras can and have been fooled on many occasions.

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by nicce on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @06:42PM (#41782536)
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Alupis on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:17PM (#41782792)
To be fair, $2MM of LIDAR units seems more like a R&D purchase than a stockpile.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by stavros on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:41PM (#41782971)
$2.1m?! They must have bought two!
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by nicce on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @04:10AM (#41785612)
2,100 - according to article
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by bmicraft on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @06:07PM (#41782285)
Yeah okay, but that doesn't mean _cameras_ are bad (which, to be fair, they are in Teslas case), it means the algorithms feeding on them are.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Alupis on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @06:21PM (#41782390)
It means the cameras can be fooled by things LIDAR cannot be. Such as smoke, glare, reflections, optical illusions/mirage, etc.

If the algorithms are fed with incorrect data, they will produce incorrect results - such as driving full-speed into a parked, white colored, semi-truck.

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by bmicraft on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @11:27PM (#41795201)
And lidar can't tell the difference between a plastic bag and a rock, what's your point?
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Alupis on Thursday October 10, 2024 @01:25PM (#41801107)
One can (and has been) fooled into thinking there is no object in the path - the other might be extra sensitive to any object in it's path.

I'll let you stew on that one for a minute...

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by bmicraft on Thursday October 10, 2024 @05:48PM (#41803931)
> I'll let you stew on that one for a minute...

Then that means the vision processing isn't far along yet to be viable for a car. There is no fundamental reason why it couldn't work though. With either stereoscopic vision or more temporal processing you could obviously detect when things are only painted on a wall surface, with both there really is no excuse to still fail except limited processing power.

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by kelnos on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @08:37PM (#41783325)
And this is likely why Tesla's FSD is... not very good.
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Rebelgecko on Saturday October 05, 2024 @06:09PM (#41753297)
Lidar doesn't work for some things- my Roborock S7 has trouble if there's a USB cable on the ground or a lamp's power cord isn't tucked all the way up against the wall. Supposedly the camera models are better at avoiding certain obstacles, which is good if you have a pet or housemate who sometimes poops inside and you don't want that getting mopped all over the floor.

That's a compelling use case for me but considering how many of these vacuums have had privacy issues, I stuck with Lidar (people cast aspersions on the Chinese companies but US manufacturers have track records that don't inspire confidence either - just ask the Roomba employees who got their naked pics leaked online)

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Scoundreller on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:50PM (#41783027)
just wrap your cables in retroreflective tape?
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by techbrovanguard on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @11:57PM (#41784395)
this is a joke… right?
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by Scoundreller on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @02:52AM (#41785208)
It’d be ugly but should make them really pop on the lidar, no?
Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by s1mon on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @08:11PM (#41783185)
"good if you have a pet or housemate who sometimes poops inside"

I have a pet (cat) that unfortunately poops just outside her box most of the time, despite a lot of different ideas and approaches with the help of our vet. She's old and has lower back pain issues. It ends up on a litter mat or the wooden floor, so it's not that hard to clean up.

If I had a housemate that pooped inside not in the toilet, they would need to be even less able to manage their shit, so to speak, and more loved than our cat, or they would be out of here very fast.

Re:ABC News hacks into popular robot vacuum, watches owner t... by tzs on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @02:52PM (#41780517)
In addition to what others have said, I believe some use an upward facing camera to help with mapping.

Ceilings tend to be less cluttered than floors so it is easier to figure out the shapes of rooms and their relationships by looking at the ceiling than by looking at the floor.