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Re:Bop Spotter by simonw on Monday September 30, 2024 @04:34PM (#41701789)
Some details on how this works: https://twitter.com/rtwlz/status/1840821351055311245

    The phone has a Tasker script running on loop (even if
    the battery dies, it’ll restart when it boots again)

    Script records 10 min of audio in airplane mode, then
    comes out of airplane mode and connects to nearby free
    WiFi.

    Then uploads the audio file to my server, which splits it
    into 15 sec chunks that slightly overlap. Passes each to
    Shazam’s API (not public, but someone reverse engineered
    it and made a great Python package). Phone only uses 2%
    of power every hour when it’s not charging!
Re:Bop Spotter by andai on Monday September 30, 2024 @07:51PM (#41703316)
That's so cool, I gotta check out this Tasker thing!

>when it boots again

Do any Android phones turn on automatically when sufficiently charged? The ones I've had stay switched off but with a little battery charging animation. (I think my old iPhone auto powered on when charged past a certain percentage though.)

Re:Bop Spotter by walz on Monday September 30, 2024 @08:32PM (#41703544)
I used an old Motorola phone for this, and yes, if it dies it won’t turn back on again until the power button is pressed. I Googled around and there’s a way to disable this behavior though, through an ADB command. The bad part is that it supposedly might get stuck in a boot loop – it tries to boot but there’s not enough battery yet, so it dies and keeps trying to boot. Over and over.

I made a second Tasker automation, so it shuts down with less than 15 percent battery. It might still get stuck in a boot loop, but eventually the solar panel will quickly charge it above 15% so that it won’t be for very long.

Re:Bop Spotter by franga2000 on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @04:13AM (#41705836)
Most android phones have a feature that lets you set a time at which the phone should turn itself on at a certain time. I used this as a last resort in a project with similar requirements, but I don't remember if we ever ended up testing if it worked after fully draining the battery.
Re:Bop Spotter by WithinReason on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @04:46AM (#41706048)
You can virtually power down a phone in Tasker without turning it off by shutting down all antennas and downclocking the CPU and GPU, disabling background tasks etc.
Re:Bop Spotter by andai on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @11:10AM (#41709454)
Interesting. The "power on when charging" thing appears to be a flag you can set, but not all brands support it.
Re:Bop Spotter by myself248 on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @08:55AM (#41707722)
When the phone is "off" but showing the charging animation, it's actually booted and the animation is a program it's running. There used to be a hack, I don't know if it works on modern Android, where you'd essentially edit the init scripts and tell it that the charging animation task should be the rest of the boot process, or your specific app of interest.
Re:Bop Spotter by andai on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @05:57PM (#41714695)
That's interesting. But the charging animation appears near instantly, while my phone takes a minute or two to start?
Re:Bop Spotter by bilalq on Monday September 30, 2024 @06:47PM (#41702936)
A bit disappointing that this sends audio recordings to a server. Even if it's not the intention, that leaves so much possibility for abuse.

Why not use a Pixel phone with on-device song matching? It also keeps history on device. Getting that data out of the app might be a little tricky, but should be possible.

Re:Bop Spotter by tiagod on Monday September 30, 2024 @06:53PM (#41702968)
Perfect is the enemy of good. I've found it's much better to get a project up and running as an "MVP" than to chase the perfect until the details suck all the fun out of it.
Re:Bop Spotter by bilalq on Monday September 30, 2024 @10:28PM (#41704128)
I don't see what that has to do with what I said. Chasing an MVP doesn't have to involve disrespecting people's privacy and recording without consent.

There are many worse violators than this, but it is what it is.

Re:Bop Spotter by jbullock35 on Monday September 30, 2024 @11:32PM (#41704401)
It's a very public place in the United States. It's not clear that people should expect or be entitled to much privacy in these public places.

We also know that, regardless of the degree of privacy to which people should be entitled, they're not legally entitled to much privacy in these places. Federal court rulings have been extremely clear on this point. In these places, we don't even have the right to not be photographed.

Re:Bop Spotter by waffleiron on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @01:28AM (#41704845)
>they're not legally entitled to much privacy in these places.

While I think this is a really cool project, I also agree with the privacy issues. CA is a two party consent state, and recording a conversation (which this is likely to do) like this is likely illegal. While a person might not have a expectation of privacy about someone just hearing the conversation, they are protected by law if they are recorded without their knowledge.

NB: I am not a lawyer, and the above could very well be wrong.

Edit: As I was informed below, I was wrong on the legal points.

Re:Bop Spotter by borski on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @01:54AM (#41704982)
There is no right to privacy in a public space. It is not illegal to record an area where individuals would not have the expectation of privacy, even without their consent. Therefore, this is not illegal.

If this were a restaurant, that would be a different story.

Re:Bop Spotter by waffleiron on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @02:06AM (#41705061)
Yup you are totally right for CA:

> Exceptions (one-party consent required): (1) where there is no expectation of privacy, (2) recording within government proceedings that are open to the public, (3) recording certain crimes or communications regarding such crimes (for the purpose of obtaining evidence), (4) a victim of domestic violence recording a communication made to him/her by the perpetrator (for the purpose of obtaining a restraining order or evidence that the perpetrator violated an existing restraining order), and (5) a peace officer recording a communication within a location in response to an emergency hostage situation.

Source: https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RECORDING...

Re:Bop Spotter by HeatrayEnjoyer on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @08:27AM (#41707491)
> There is no right to privacy in a public space.

No legally protected right. This doesn't mean it is ethical, and given that it is a protected right in other jurisdictions shows it deserves more consideration and should not be hand waived away.

If "it's legal" is the argument being used to defense a behavior, it's safe to assume it's not actually a good one.

Re:Bop Spotter by fkyoureadthedoc on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @08:38AM (#41707586)
No, "it's legal" is the argument being used to defend the "it's illegal" and "you're not allowed to" argument. The argument to support the project is that it's cool af.
Re:Bop Spotter by borski on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @09:33AM (#41708187)
It is legal. The claim was that it wasn’t.

I never argued it was ethical. I think it is, but that wasn’t my argument.

Re:Bop Spotter by robocat on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @07:43AM (#41707120)
This is just an artistic way of showing surveillance.

Fixing this one installation wouldn't fix all the rest (example: Shot spotter)

Re:Bop Spotter by tempfile on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @09:21AM (#41708022)
It is good to care about this sort of thing, but this is untargeted recording in public. It is not very different to the fact that if I was recording a home movie in public I may incidentally record someone's conversation.

The real harm would occur if the conversations were being stored and analysed systematically, for example by police. But the OP is not doing that (they claim).

Re:Bop Spotter by HeatrayEnjoyer on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @08:24AM (#41707474)
This attitude is one of the worst, most harmful things to come out of Silicon Valley tech culture.
Re:Bop Spotter by fkyoureadthedoc on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @08:34AM (#41707552)
I sincerely doubt that. Should you blindly apply it to everything? Of course not, nuance exists.

Apply it OP's project. The project is super cool, popular, and most of all it's done and it exists. The worst thing you can say about it is that it's not perfect and failed one weird purity test. Oh no, public audio gets sent to a server!

Re:Bop Spotter by olyjohn on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @07:24PM (#41725867)
There's a difference between doing this for a personal project, and doing this with a product that you expect other people to pay for...
Re:Bop Spotter by tiagod on Thursday October 03, 2024 @10:09PM (#41737142)
It's just a harmless personal project.
Re:Bop Spotter by franga2000 on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @04:28AM (#41705931)
I don't get what you mean by "possibility for abuse". The author abusing it? Well if they wanted to do that they wouldn't have built the whole music detection thing and wrote about it on the internet. If Shazam gets breached or turns evil, we have infinitely bigger problems than this one phone on this one street. If the author's server gets hacked, the hacker wouldn't care about this - the hackers who want large surveillance networks hack phones and IoT crap, not random people's home servers.

And honestly, as a commentary on how commonplace and normal mass surveillance has become, which this project seems to be, I quite like the threat of "there is a box out there somewhere that sends everything it hears to a server and it does this not for good or evil, but because one programmer was bored and thought what if I could know what song was playing in the cafe across the street".

Re:Bop Spotter by oorza on Monday September 30, 2024 @08:26PM (#41703512)
If 2% of the battery is 2% of 3000mAh (which is probably a generous over-estimate of the phone's capacity), that means the phone pulls ~60mA.

You can buy a 60,000 mAh battery (or build one) for about $50, which would buy this device 10,000 hours, or round it down and call it 1 year.

Re:Bop Spotter by walz on Monday September 30, 2024 @08:38PM (#41703585)
60,000 divided by 60 is 1000, not 10,000. So only about a month, still a lot of time!

The phone has 4,000mAh, too.

Re:Bop Spotter by xk3 on Monday September 30, 2024 @10:38PM (#41704164)
It uses solar power, right? So I think it was built with that in mind. charge during the day and run until it loses power at night
Re:Bop Spotter by authorfly on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @07:03AM (#41706808)
How big are 60k mAh safe batteries?

I know eBikes are a massive step up from laptop batteries (seemingly better for the density too somehow?)

Re:Bop Spotter by kotaKat on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @12:59PM (#41711077)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZJDVDLC

This little no-name 185Wh battery pack is $40 right now with the 50% coupon code and would probably work great. (I picked one up recently for another project and it actually does deliver as advertised performance.)

Re:Bop Spotter by s2l on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @09:14PM (#41716254)
For another use case, I experienced that the phone battery starts swelling after few months. It was an indoor setup and I had removed the phone backcover to avoid overheating.
Re:Bop Spotter by repeekad on Monday September 30, 2024 @09:20PM (#41703790)
surely shazam will realize when one IP address is responsible for 1000x a usual person's bandwidth?

or, given Pixel phones can identify audio in the background seemingly without impacting battery, are modern algorithms for identifying music from audio so efficient that shazam pays almost nothing per clip?

Re:Bop Spotter by rafram on Monday September 30, 2024 @09:31PM (#41703848)
Yes, it essentially just runs a perceptual hash algorithm on the audio and finds the closest matches in a database.
Re:Bop Spotter by btown on Monday September 30, 2024 @09:53PM (#41703973)
Since the audio is sent to the creator’s server first, they could call Shazam from any number of rotating IPs. It’s a pretty future-proof design!
Re:Bop Spotter by PhiSchle on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @02:06AM (#41705059)
At least with the recent Pixels there's an option to have your phone listen 24/7 and tell you what music is playing. Probably difficult to distinguish this tower from a homeless guy sitting in a subway station listening to different music all day.
Re:Bop Spotter by tialaramex on Tuesday October 01, 2024 @11:48AM (#41709956)
That app ("Now playing") is the same technology as Shazam but it's local, because this isn't actually difficult on modern hardware. It's the same technique the Pixel uses to notice that somebody said "Google" to it, again without needing a remote server.

Now Playing has a smaller database than Shazam does but the technology would work fine with a larger database if you wanted that, which for this application you might.

However, unsurprisingly Google did not give away the technology.

Re:Bop Spotter by mbonnet on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @01:26PM (#41722961)
How does it reboot if it dies?
Re:Bop Spotter by Amarok on Friday October 11, 2024 @06:44PM (#41814598)
Google search is now better than Shazam at recognising a tune. From experience, it can also detect the right tune when someone is (badly) singing it rather than playing the song.