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Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Simon_ORourke on Saturday August 24, 2024 @02:50AM (#41336181)
> It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost

Exactly this, for now the minimal use cases for these kinds of high-end VR headsets leave them firmly in the "gimmick" category. I'm pretty sure some mass-market use case will be found for them, maybe even outside of gaming, but the fact that some pretty smart people haven't found this one already is a teensey-tiny bit worrying too.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @04:07AM (#41336483)
By what the OP describes, these devices could become a limited but perhaps “profound” replacement for flying thousands of kms to have a holiday.

Or to have “power holidays” similar to a Power Nap, where you use an VR/AR device to relive a holiday for 5/10 mins.

Or to have “preview holidays” to experience a destination before booking a flight there.

If travel agents still existed, then they would be a perfect market for these VR devices but travel agents have long gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by davkan on Saturday August 24, 2024 @04:23AM (#41336549)
That all sounds very depressing to me if I’m being honest.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @04:57AM (#41336689)
So are the regular news concerning the destruction of the environment and our human caused climate change.

If a VR set can reduce travel, then that might be something positive for the environment.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by davkan on Saturday August 24, 2024 @05:19AM (#41336783)
I think there’s lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions than swapping the annual family vacation for a bunch of VR headsets.

By all means if you’re willing to make that sacrifice be my guest, but I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @05:44AM (#41336903)
> lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions

Taking a bike (when possible) instead of a car, for example. I think many things that we can do fail because of our collective convenience: why take public transport when I can have my private space in a car?

There might be low hanging fruits, but there is human convenience to take into account. Making potential low hanging fruit become had to implement.

> I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset

Most certainly it wouldn't be the same however experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device? That would be better than nothing and would also equate to a "type of" holiday (if done well). Its certainly not something that I can do physically.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Flop7331 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @11:48AM (#41339069)
> experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device

That's not a holiday. That's a game.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Sunday August 25, 2024 @07:32AM (#41346506)
Gamification of holidays! /s
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by toyg on Sunday August 25, 2024 @01:32PM (#41349305)
Literally: it's an ever-so-slightly more immersive Assassin Creed 2. I mean, great, but worth spending a grand? Probably not.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by davkan on Saturday August 24, 2024 @12:13PM (#41339226)
I’m 100% down the idea that we have individual responsibility to the environment and must make some personal sacrifice. Paper grocery bags are much less convenient than plastic but I’m in support of legislation to ban plastic bags even if all the cost and inconvenience is passed on to the customer. Biking to work is a great choice if you live in range.

Neither of these deprive you of truly transformative experiences like travel. Air travel will never be a green endeavor. It will always be something that we’ll have to compensate for elsewhere in pursuit of being carbon neutral.

I’m not willing to tell someone that they should not fly across the country to see their friend in order to be an environmentally responsible citizen. Not while we still burn coal and gas to keep the lights on.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Sunday August 25, 2024 @07:38AM (#41346534)
Apparently global trade via ships is much worse than airplanes - in terms of environmental impact. Apparently container ships burn extremely dirty fuels once they enter international waters.

I guess regardless where humans start, the dependency on fossil fuels is simply too vast to rollback.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by davkan on Monday August 26, 2024 @02:26AM (#41354527)
Container ships are definitely worse, but also sadly not feasible to electrify. Power plants are a good start. Short range commercial vehicles as well.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by nottorp on Saturday August 24, 2024 @05:44AM (#41336902)
I believe the OP was more thinking of all those corporate flights for a one hour talk. But you don't need VR for that. They could hold them over sms if they could read and write.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bonoboTP on Saturday August 24, 2024 @07:03AM (#41337246)
Real deals aren't made over a zoom call. They just aren't. That's why they still fly there even though they are well aware of how to use zoom.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by moab9 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @02:02PM (#41340066)
they fly there and do the deal over email from the hotel.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Earw0rm on Saturday August 24, 2024 @04:40AM (#41336612)
Unless perhaps you're severely disabled, holidays are so much more than just your eyes and ears.

Not just all of your five senses, and your ability to interact, but the social and human side as well, and your ability to interact physically with it all.

People said the same kind of things about TV - and while, on the one hand, they perhaps underestimated the profound effects of TV on society, nobody would confuse it with telepresence.

I'm not sure what VR offers here that web panoramas, detailed photos and customer reviews don't.. there's a marginal advantage there perhaps but it feels like a $250-300 peripheral rather than a $kk investment.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Physkal on Saturday August 24, 2024 @05:49AM (#41336928)
Does anyone know the current state of smell-o-vision technologies?
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by DonHopkins on Saturday August 24, 2024 @09:02AM (#41337986)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29225777

DonHopkins on Nov 15, 2021 | root | parent | next [–]

The iSmell developers were hoping to make money the same way, by selling big smell combination pack cartridges that you have to entirely replace after any one of the smells ran out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISmell

>The iSmell Personal Scent Synthesizer developed by DigiScents Inc. is a small device that can be connected to a computer through a Universal serial bus (USB) port and powered using any ordinary electrical outlet. The appearance of the device is similar to that of a shark’s fin, with many holes lining the “fin” to release the various scents. Using a cartridge similar to a printer’s, it can synthesize and even create new smells from certain combinations of other scents. These newly created odors can be used to closely replicate common natural and manmade odors. The cartridges used also need to be swapped every so often once the scents inside are used up. Once partnered with websites and interactive media, the scents can be activated either automatically once a website is opened or manually. However, the product is no longer on the market and never generated substantial sales. Digiscent had plans for the iSmell to have several versions but did not progress past the prototype stage. The company did not last long and filed for bankruptcy a short time after.

This Wired Magazine article is a classic Marc Canter interview. I'm surprised they could smell the output of the iSmell USB device over the pungent bouquet from all the joints he was smoking:

You've Got Smell!

https://www.wired.com/1999/11/digiscent/

>DigiScent is here. If this technology takes off, it's gonna launch the next Web revolution. Joel Lloyd Bellenson places a little ceramic bowl in front of me and lifts its lid. "Before we begin," he says, "you need to clear your nasal palate." I peer into the bowl. "Coffee beans," explains Bellenson's partner, Dexster Smith. […]

>"You know, I don't think the transition from wood smoke to bananas worked very well." -Marc Canter

The failed quest to bring smells to the internet (thehustle.co)

https://thehustle.co/digiscents-ismell-fail

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17476460

DigiScent had a booth at the 1999 Game Developers Conference, with scantily dressed young women in skunk costumes.

I told them about a game called "The Sims" I had been working on for a long time, and was hoping to finish and release some time soon.

They unsuccessfully tried to convince me to make The Sims support the iSmell, and even gave me a copy of the SDK documentation, because they thought it would enrich the player's experience of all those sweaty unwashed sims, blue puddles of piss on the floor, stopped up toilets in the bathroom, and plates of rotting food with flies buzzing around on the dining room table.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Jeff_Brown on Saturday August 24, 2024 @07:51AM (#41337477)
Exactly. The sun on your skin, the breeze in your hair, sand in your toes, clean saltwater air ... good luck.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by moab9 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @02:00PM (#41340032)
sounds like we might enjoy a wind machine and a heat lamp
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @05:02AM (#41336712)
I guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries.

You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination.

Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people? Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular? I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Kbelicius on Saturday August 24, 2024 @08:36AM (#41337783)
> guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries.

Not an argument. Besides, like 10-15 years in to WWW companies like amazon, google, facebook, youtube were there. 12 years after oculus rift VR is still a small niche.

> You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination.

No, it is not discounting the ability of our imagination. It is more correct to say that you are discounting the ability of our imagination by suggesting that adventure, travel and crime books aren't all we need to immerse ourselves. By going this path of argumentation (if we can call it an argument) you are basically saying that VR is for those, well, lacking in imagination

> Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people?

Do they? I don't think they do. Chatting with someone they don't know? Maybe. Doing a video call with a friend/partner? No.

> Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular?

You are conflating meeting (just meeting, once people meet they don't maintain their relationship on the app) someone new and not a social activity with, well, socializing with people that you want to socialize with.

> I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people.

You do understand that outsides is not filled only with random people?

What argument are you trying to make for VR? What use case, that would make VR "huge", are you suggesting?

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Towaway69 on Sunday August 25, 2024 @08:03AM (#41346690)
> What argument are you trying to make for VR?

That VR can provide a certain amount of immersive escape from the day to day. Just as the internet replaced certain offline activities and moved them online, I don't understand VR hasn't done the same.

Having used the Quest 2(?) which has automatic boundary detection and cameras that show you the surroundings if you step beyond those boundaries, I no longer had the worry of bumping into things. That made the experience very immersive.

So for me personally, there has been a definite improvement in the experience.

And I agree, the equipment is currently too cumbersome for the general consumer market. In addition to that, stupid vender-lock ideas such as with the Quest where you need a facebook account to use the device, also prevent the general application of the technology. (I would have bought myself a Quest if Facebook account wasn't a requirement. Vision Pro is simply too expensive.)

That doesn't mean that the technology won't one day find general application.

Also content does exist, sites such SketchFab have much free 3D content and with WebGL being generally compatiable with VR tech, it's relative easy to generate more content.

Yeck, I even worked on some code to make programming in 3D possible![1]

> What use case, that would make VR "huge", are you suggesting?

I assume you mean general consumer use-casae, there are definitely a number of use cases that are very niche.

But if I knew that, I most certainly won't share it with a public forum! ;)

[1]=https://flowhub.org/f/5f0c36ed4bd03058

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Earw0rm on Sunday August 25, 2024 @05:53PM (#41351787)
Online dating and food delivery are popular because they're an allegedly more efficient and safer (in the case of dating) way of getting what you're looking for delivered to your door. Online dating is basically pre-screening, and a substitute for various real-world stuff that's increasingly less accepted (the workplace) or normalised (bars.. still a thing, but much less so than they were).

If I could chat in person with the people I talk to online, I would. And sometimes, that happens. But they're typically far away (for various values of far), while also being more interesting (ditto) than many of those more nearby.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bratwurst3000 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @04:44AM (#41336633)
how didnt porn run this over? honestly porn did advances the internet because it, and gaming, was THE usecase for most people. youtube etc wasnt there at the time it was porn and games. And porn and games should be the reason why VR shall sell
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by kvmet on Saturday August 24, 2024 @07:44AM (#41337435)
I think porn prefers open tooling so that it is less likely to be banned. Going inside Apple's walled garden is probably more risky in that regard and also there's only a small consumer base.

There are plenty of VR apps in this category available for PC-connected headsets. You can find tons of them on Steam or Patreon.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by andruby on Saturday August 24, 2024 @08:19AM (#41337664)
Small consumer base for porn or for the current $3000 apple headset?

The immersion is really good.

Apple would never allow it in their ecosystem, but OnlyFans + immersive VR could sell very well.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bratwurst3000 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @09:31AM (#41338176)
yeah i think apples no porn policy is ruining their vr headset and the future of vr ;). not that i am into vr porn. i only think the market for that should be huge
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by PaulHoule on Saturday August 24, 2024 @07:32AM (#41337371)
Apple Pro has an advantage of having no controllers to get in the way of holding your joystick.

I am waiting for the 2P version which replace your partner’s image with somebody else’s.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by dartos on Saturday August 24, 2024 @12:50PM (#41339511)
Meta quest does the same thing…
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bryanrasmussen on Saturday August 24, 2024 @07:44AM (#41337431)
when porn advanced the internet did it cost 2000 dollars to get entry to the porn? I don't remember that. I think when this advancing happened it was pretty cheap, in some ways cheaper than buying a bunch of magazines.

Porn advanced the internet because it was a cheaper delivery mechanism for a cheap commodity, games expanded the internet because it was a technologically innovative platform for high end products.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by pfannkuchen on Saturday August 24, 2024 @09:38AM (#41338229)
Inflation calculator says Vision Pro price today is $1730 in 1995 dollars.

That is in the range of what a pc cost back then, I think? Like middle to high end but not out of the ballpark.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bratwurst3000 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @09:40AM (#41338247)
PCs costs much around year 2000. and porn and email and messenger where the bonus to games. its was like “hey look counter strikes etc .. nice games” “hmm not sure” “ there is also porn” “bought”
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bryanrasmussen on Saturday August 24, 2024 @10:30AM (#41338586)
I bought PCs around year 1998, and I don't remember porn being in the selling point, furthermore everyone I knew in 2000 had PCs because they had to use office. PCs had already infiltrated the market at the point the internet became a going concern.

In other words the internet was relatively cheap for people.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by BatFastard on Saturday August 24, 2024 @01:34PM (#41339823)
Evercrack, I knew a number of people who bought 3000 dollar computers in the mid nineties to play Everquest.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by conductr on Monday August 26, 2024 @01:39AM (#41354319)
I wasn't a PC gamer but I bought a Dell in late nineties for near $3k. I think that was just the going rates for anything near max on RAM or CPU, even going big on disk space could drastically up the cost back then. I think I ended up adding a upgraded GPU to that PC that cost a good deal extra, and I wasn't even a gamer! I think I just wanted to edit or watch a certain video format/quality/etc and the stock GPU card wasn't able to handle it.

I don't remember exactly, but I do remember I used to collect videos of live performances from a handful of my favorite bands back then so think it might have been related to that hobby. As a side note, I had dozens of the 100 pack CD-R stacks full of these burned videos because HDD cost too much and I didn't need them to be available on demand.

Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by conductr on Sunday August 25, 2024 @12:36PM (#41348660)
Yeah and porn advances were specifically because the market leaders of the old school industry (publishers/distributors) could have their market stolen. So there was a large carrot out there, and it warranted market disruption. Just like dozens of other industries as the Internet and computing became widely available. The old guard of playboy and hustler and such did not invest heavily in the advances. It was small operators looking for an advantage in scale. Producers looking to cut out distributors, etc. I don’t think vr specifically offers that level of treasures and it’s not like any Joe can start a vr porn shop now. The internet originally offered the ability of a single person to sell millions of copies of their films. It (vr) probably actually consolidates it further again as larger investment in production equipment and editing is needed. But, it’s a tiny market so nobody really cares to be a first adopter. A lot of people are skeptical of Vr ever being widely available any time soon. That skepticism was optimism in early days of PC usage. Everyone knew computers were the future and we’d all be using them daily, in the home, etc. It was worth investing in for the porn industry.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by anvuong on Saturday August 24, 2024 @08:34AM (#41337766)
TBH I feel like if I am into VR porn then I am definitely addicted and I'd need help from professional. Usually porn is like a quick dopamine hit, or a quick release for a biological need. For VR, you'd beed to be really really into porn, to spend all the setup time AND then still be in the mood ...
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by bratwurst3000 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @09:36AM (#41338217)
yes true. but isnt using addicted people for the own benefit the whole premise of most social media and alike. apple is maybe not into social media but I cant imagine zuckerberg not wetting his pants from joy if he thinks about million more people crippled to his attention gathering devices.
Re:Meta Cancels High-End Mixed Reality Headset After Apple V... by Flop7331 on Saturday August 24, 2024 @11:07AM (#41338833)
Porn can't make the big ticket sales needed to prop up VR. It's hard enough to get a payment processor because of how often charges get disputed and fears about touching the money for illegal and abusive material.

You can't be discreet about VR porning because it leaves you oblivious to your surroundings. You gotta plan ahead and really commit to the time and place.

Aren't all of them propped up by being tethered to some FAANG? I highly doubt they are interested in hiring the best and brightest to build VR porn devices.

I also suspect that the "kick" from porn is a voyeuristic one; i.e. most consumers would rather watch it than be in it.