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Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by xnx on Monday August 12, 2024 @09:36PM (#41231323)
The gap between Waymo and all other competitors in the self-driving space continues to widen.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by saddlerustle on Monday August 12, 2024 @09:41PM (#41231345)
AutoX and Pony.ai in China have been been offering rides to the public with no safety driver for much longer than Waymo
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by AlotOfReading on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:59PM (#41231765)
Waymo has been doing public rides (2015) since before either company was founded (2016). Pony.ai also got their permit suspended twice in California for different safety-related reasons, so the comparison says more about the different regulatory environment in China than it does about their relative maturity.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by saddlerustle on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @02:08PM (#41237846)
Waymo was not doing public rides in 2015. It was invite only and you had to sign an NDA
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by AlotOfReading on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @03:33PM (#41238857)
They were doing rides for members of the public. That's a public ride.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by crazygringo on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @04:26PM (#41239426)
No, public means accessible to the ~whole public, not a tiny subset.

Invite-only is quite literally the opposite of public. It's private.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by neom on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:13PM (#41231504)
South Korea has some stuff going on too, but not longer than Waymo. http://www.smobi.ai/ - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823705
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by dyauspitr on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:51PM (#41231717)
With zero public releases/data on crash information.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by andrewmcwatters on Monday August 12, 2024 @11:59PM (#41232081)
Comma has given up on self-driving cars and they're downplaying it now.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by nojvek on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @10:38AM (#41235909)
Comma is phenomenal at highway driving. Better than Tesla.

They should keep on doing what they're doing. Make ~$1000 gadget that makes driving less of a chore. Doubtful they'll get to driverless in next 10 years.

There can be many players in the market at different offerings and price points. Comma is a sweet spot where they are handsomely profitable, don't need to raise another round and get incrementally better.

Waymo has unlimited money from Google. Cruise, Zoox, e.t.c will have to face reckoning at some point.

It was smart of Uber to get out of self-driving car billion dollar money burning pit. They can always enter the race again. They have market size advantage.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by andrewmcwatters on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @03:18PM (#41238682)
Better than Tesla is not a high bar. Openpilot regularly slams on the brakes.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by SkyPuncher on Thursday August 15, 2024 @07:37PM (#41261648)
I was deeply unimpressed with Tesla’s highway driving when I test drove one. I found both Ford and Hyundai/Kia to be at or above the level of the Tesla.

Frankly, I didn’t see any benefit of Tesla over most of the lane centering and adaptive cruise solutions in the market. It felt so unpredictable that I preferred to simply drive by hand.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by hakfoo on Friday August 16, 2024 @01:01AM (#41263292)
I can't fathom how "makes driving less of a chore" can work from a regulatory standpoint.

For me, that's the end-all-be-all of self driving promises. It doesn't matter whether they call it level 3, 4, 5, or 420, what the branding and promo copy says, it matters how it gets handled from a legal standpoint.

Unless you can get the vendor to accept liability, you're either hands-on-the-wheel driving, or sitting there tensing and waiting for the "you must jump back to hands-on-the-wheel driving in the next 3 seconds or we plow into the side of a lorry" alarm.

In a way, this is the same heuristic as "the company that offers a long warranty can't make crap." No company will willingly put themselves on the hook from the estate of pedestrians and other drivers until they know they've solved it to a statistically high level.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by aantix on Monday August 12, 2024 @09:46PM (#41231368)
Have you seen FSD 12.5.1.3?
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by EcommerceFlow on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:03PM (#41231446)
He obviously hasn't. The tech community is in for quite a shock with Tesla robotaxi's come out in a year or so and blow out the competition. One factor not discussed often is how much smoother FSD is compared to all other self driving. Especially noticeable when going from FSD to the free AutoSteer or GM Supercruise.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by kibwen on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:13PM (#41231505)
> The tech community is in for quite a shock with Tesla robotaxi's come out in a year or so

FSD has been set to come out in a year or so since 2014. At this point nobody should be foolish enough to give Tesla the benefit of the doubt; if they have a self-driving car, then they'll take legal liability for its actions, and if they won't take legal liability for its actions, they don't have a self-driving car. This is as true for any company as it is for Tesla, although Tesla is the only one who's seen fit to lie about it for a decade.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by aantix on Monday August 12, 2024 @11:40PM (#41231995)
12.5.1.3 is pretty incredible. Their innovation in this space is accelerating rapidly.

I encourage you to watch some of the videos on Twitter.

It's here. It's now.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by Glant on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @08:23AM (#41234762)
Just watched the first video that shows up on YouTube when searching "12.5.1.3" and it starts with a small compilation of the driver having to take back control before the car hits things.

https://youtu.be/TLUdxdS8bcM

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by glaucon on Monday August 12, 2024 @10:17PM (#41231530)
>The tech community is in for quite a shock with Tesla robotaxi's come out in a year or so

I, for one, will be surprised ... in fact put me down for "very surprised".

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @02:41PM (#41238238)
> tech community is in for quite a shock with Tesla robotaxi's come out in a year or so and blow out the competition

12.5.1.3 is incredible. But it's still Level 3, attempting to do something stupid at least on every trip I've been in one.

I think Tesla will figure out Level 4 in the near future. What makes the "year or so" unrealistic is it will have to convince regulators that it's safe. For a variety of reasons, partly legitimate and partly due to Musk's antics, that might be difficult in a lot of the most lucrative markets (and markets where Teslas are).

Top comment's estimate for 2030 parity with Waymo et al is more realistic.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by curated4ever on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @09:57PM (#41241833)
Correction: Tesla is Level 2. Not Level 3.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by SkyPuncher on Thursday August 15, 2024 @07:41PM (#41261665)
I test drove a Tesla last fall and was deeply unimpressed with it.

It did a few things better than my Ford and Hyundai vehicles, but it was wildly unpredictable when it’d just decide to stop working. That’s a big problem for me.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by cameldrv on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @01:06AM (#41232430)
Yeah. Have you seen Waymo? Even with 12.5, you have to keep your eyes on the road, and at least once or twice a week, it’s going to do something that would likely cause an accident. If it does, Tesla will blame you for not paying attention.

In a Waymo, you sit in the back seat and scroll your phone and it gets you safely to your destination every time. These are not even remotely comparable products.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by aantix on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @11:50AM (#41236608)
They're not remotely comparable problem sets.

Tesla's generalized driving algorithm vs Waymo's cherry-picked routes and ideal weather.

Tesla is winning. And the gap is getting wider.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by fsociety on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @01:44PM (#41237618)
I would bet more in a company who figured out the last 20% in a specific city than a company stuck on the first 80% generally.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by acchow on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @02:14PM (#41237908)
Waymo works perfectly fine in the rain. No driver.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by SR2Z on Tuesday August 13, 2024 @05:03PM (#41239837)
Waymo does not have cherry picked routes - it has a defined ODD inside which is ANY route can be driven fully unsupervised.

This necessarily involves some kind of generalized driving algorithm but more usefully, it gives you a clear goal and distribution to measure against.

Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by aantix on Wednesday August 14, 2024 @12:29PM (#41247925)
The defined ODD is essentially cherry-picking the routes.
Re:Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week by SR2Z on Friday August 16, 2024 @12:04PM (#41267588)
Sure, if the powerset of all roads in a major city is "cherry-picking" to you. The rest of us just call that driving.