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Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by 11001100 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @08:50AM (#40596781)
Damn! I consume it regularly. Not so much in one day, of course, because it does have a laxative effect. But every cake I've made has been baked with it.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by jajko on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:44AM (#40598015)
"widely used sugar substitutes in processed foods" - what could go wrong, right
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by 0cf8612b2e1e on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:53PM (#40599640)
As opposed to throwing corn syrup into everything possible. Any non raw food you acquire is probably loaded with some junk or another.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by jiveturkey on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:51AM (#40598095)
Can anyone summarize how much risk? I don't see that in the abstract. And how much amount of xylitol where it becomes a risk? (We all know, everything can kill you in the right volumes, even water, but there are also healthy volumes.)

I go through a lot of chewing gum with xylitol.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Bo0kerDeWitt on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:53AM (#40598122)
I'm almost certain I'm mildly intolerant to xylitol, maltitol, and sorbitol - so I avoid them all. There must be others like me, but I hardly every see this discussed. And there's no medical test I know of that can prove it, but I really wish there was.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by alan-crowe on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:02AM (#40598259)
Sabine Hossenfelder, a physics Youtuber, recently departed from her usual content to discuss sorbitol giving her digestive problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5v61YtDYo4
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by blcknight on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:58AM (#40598210)
Do you get a laxative effect or other gastro symptoms? Sorbitol is the reason prune juice is an effective laxative.

Xylitol is usually such a small amount that it doesn't have that effect although some people are more sensitive.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by gensym on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:11AM (#40598382)
I've seen it discussed in reviews of sugar-free Haribo gummy bears: https://www.amazon.com/review/R2JGNJ5ZPJT4YC
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by aussieguy1234 on Friday June 07, 2024 @08:47PM (#40614392)
These are FODMAPs, which many people with IBS find triggering. You might want to see a dietitian and find out which other FODMAPs you're sensitive to.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Spastche on Friday June 07, 2024 @09:05PM (#40614472)
I want to say one of those was originally made to induce diarrhea. I can't eat them either.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Ardon on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:53AM (#40598124)
I wonder how much this generalizes to other sugar alcohols, I've got some erythritol in the cupboard...
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by benterix on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:03AM (#40598264)
Erythritol consumption was already related to increased rate of cardiovascular events: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/erythri...
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Semaphor on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:06AM (#40598311)
Same researchers
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by mlloyd on Saturday June 08, 2024 @06:24PM (#40620593)
Damn near the same study conclusion. Uncanningly similar.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by m_a_g on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:53AM (#40598126)
How much Xylitol? We need resident researchers of HN to help us analyze the paper.

Or basically I’m hoping someone can tell me whether the paper is trustworthy or not so I can continue taking mints in peace.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Enginerrrd on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:15AM (#40598424)
Just read the paper. In the 2149 participants, detection in fasting plasma was associated with a hazard ratio of 1.57

It was also shown to enhance clotting at the levels detected in fasting plasma (in 10 people) which provides a potential mechanism to explain the effects observed in the larger group.

As for how legit it is... The number of people is significant. My only complaint is they didn't measure xylitol directly, rather they tested for polyol or something.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by dev_tty01 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:35AM (#40598721)
Thanks. That's a substantial ratio. Hazen's group is at the Cleveland clinic and has done a lot of good work so there is something there. Anything on how much Xylitol use is required to get to that risk level?
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by zw7 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:32AM (#40598669)
I believe they confirmed it was xylitol with LC-MS to validate it:

> Subsequent stable isotope dilution LC-MS/MS analyses (validation cohort) specific for xylitol (and not its structural isomers) confirmed its association with incident MACE

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by kurtextrem on Friday June 07, 2024 @01:32AM (#40605608)
"xylitol-sweetened (30 g) water, an exposure comparable with a pint of numerous xylitol-sweetened ice creams, a xylitol-sweetened bakery good, or several pieces of xylitol-sweetened candy" (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1d9ql2u/comment/l7...)
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by whalesalad on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:55AM (#40598151)
It's also incredibly lethal to dogs so for that reason alone I keep it out of my house.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/paws-xylitol-...

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by kobalsky on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:19AM (#40598482)
I still don't understand how some brands could put it on peanut butter. A few tablespoons can kill a small dog.

It's commonly known that chocolate and onions are bad for dogs but this stuff is on another league.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by r00fus on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:35PM (#40600171)
Honestly, I simply don't understand any reason to add any ingredients to peanut butter than peanuts and salt (and the 2nd is optional).
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by eurleif on Sunday June 09, 2024 @08:47PM (#40628930)
I buy the stuff that's just peanuts and salt because it's tastier, but mixing it really is a chore. It's not hard to understand why the type with other ingredients exists.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by musicale on Friday June 21, 2024 @02:21AM (#40746726)
Storing jars sideways risks oil leakage, but makes their contents easier to mix. Also refrigeration seems to slow oil separation.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Abekkus on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:24PM (#40790432)
I stir it when I first open the jar, then store it upside down in the fridge, which works great, I often just scrape what I need off of the lid, but I may try storing it sideways next, thanks.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by david-gpu on Saturday June 08, 2024 @11:03AM (#40617983)
> I still don't understand how some brands could put it on peanut butter. A few tablespoons can kill a small dog

My daughter is allergic to peanuts. A few tablespoons could kill her. Would it be reasonable for us to expect that no peanut butter is made? No. We simply don't buy it.

All that is needed is the regulatory requirement to list it in the ingredients.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by tengbretson on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:57AM (#40598197)
Hopefully this means all of the sugar alcohols will get taken off the market. Nothing makes for a worse long road trip than accidentally buying a drink that contains that garbage at the beginning.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by SoftTalker on Thursday June 06, 2024 @10:58AM (#40598212)
"Don't consume chemical sweeteners" is a pretty good rule of thumb. Almost all of them have been suspected of adverse effects of one sort or another.

Of course sugar has its own issues as well.

These days I use very little additional sweetening in any of my food. It's hard to avoid though, it's added to a lot of foods (check ingredients) and even fruit such as apples and oranges has been bred to be sweeter than it naturally was 100 years ago.

Biggest difference-maker for most people is probably sweetened drinks. Avoid soft drinks (diet or regular), sweetened tea or coffee, sports drinks, and most packaged juices.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by blcknight on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:03AM (#40598270)
> "Don't consume chemical sweeteners" is a pretty good rule of thumb.

I assume you mean non-caloric sweeteners, since all sweeteners are chemicals including table sugar (sucrose).

While suspected, few have any proven negative impacts. AceK and aspartame are probably the most well studied and the evidence is equivocal. It's probably in the end net neutral.

Some even have benefits, including most sugar alcohols being good for oral health. Erythritol has antioxidant effects in animal models as well.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by gensym on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598366)
This 5+ hour podcast on Aspartame is as fascinating as a podcast on the topic could be: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/podcast-episode-116/
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by neonsunset on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:21AM (#40598514)
For a very small but non-negligible amount of population aspartame is a severe migraine trigger.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by Spastche on Friday June 07, 2024 @09:09PM (#40614494)
last time I drank half a can of diet soda, about 2 months ago, I was in pain for a week because of aspartame. every single time I take it's like that. it's the same with most artificial sugars.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by dsr_ on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:03AM (#40598271)
Everything you ingest is a chemical except light and heat.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by margalabargala on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598358)
Okay, sure, but there's colloquial definitions which in a culinary context mean "industrially-synthesized compound meant to mimic the culinary properties of a commonly consumed chemical", here trying to mimic sugar.

Xylitol may exist in nature and be produced by our bodies, but per this article foods with it added contain 1000x the amount we would ordinarily produce.

Perhaps a better rule of thumb would be "for a given chemical, keep your exposure/consumption within an order of magnitude of what would have been typical for a human pre-1850".

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by dsr_ on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:11PM (#40599144)
That sounds great if you think that humans had access to perfect diets in 1849.

I suggest to you that is not reasonable.

"For a given chemical, avoid doses known to have a high probability of harm" is, I think, what you actually want. Then we can talk about known vs suspected and what qualifies as high probability -- impact on years of life expectancy is probably a good initial measure.

There is no Golden Age in the past. There may be a Golden Age in the future, but it's not at all certain.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by SoftTalker on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:18PM (#40599222)
They didn't, but food was much less processed then. Of course, a lot of it was also spoiled/rotten, possibly contaminated, diseased, etc.

From the standpoint of the diet that human evolution is adapted to, you have to look back to hunter/gatherer diets. Meat, fruits and vegetables, and frequent periods of near-starvation. I've sometimes wondered what a diet of one or two big meals of meat per week, with the occasional handful of nuts and berries on other days would be like.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by r2_pilot on Friday June 07, 2024 @09:07PM (#40614483)
>I've sometimes wondered what a diet of one or two big meals of meat per week, with the occasional handful of nuts and berries on other days would be like.

Assuming your general health and all, if you were careful in your nutrient profile, there's no reason you couldn't try it for, say, a week and and see how you felt.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by margalabargala on Monday June 10, 2024 @07:11PM (#40640360)
I think you misread me a bit there. I'm not saying that human diets in 1849 were perfect, by any means.

> "For a given chemical, avoid doses known to have a high probability of harm"

is exactly what I do not want. I don't want to assume everything is safe until it's shown otherwise, after I've eaten it for a decade.

I want to assume things are poison, unless they are shown to be safe. Things eaten in quantity in 1849 generally meet that criteria, minus a few things we now know to be more dangerous than thought back then.

When introducing some new compound meant to replace something in the diet like sugar, it seems much more reasonable to assume that its use may have side effects, until satisfactorily proven otherwise.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by HumblyTossed on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598364)
Sugar alcohols have other benefits like not dramatically raising blood sugar levels.

also:

> Xylitol is a sugar alcohol that is found in small amounts in fruit and vegetables, and the human body also produces it.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by notjoemama on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:05AM (#40598303)
Here's the correct principle to live by:

If it didn't occur in nature where evolution honed both its existence and human's tolerance to it, then don't consume/use it.

After so many years, I simply can't count how many times "science" has brought us some new food, ingredient, or chemical, which passed all security measures, only to find later it causes or contributes noticeably to some horrible outcome. And I'm perfectly fine not attributing malice. My experience tells me we're quite good at doing the wrong thing while thinking we're doing the right thing. Although, given the current economic climate, malice is probably just as valid.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by hollerith on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598355)
"Xylitol is found naturally in fruits and vegetables like strawberries, raspberries, mushrooms and cauliflower"

https://foodinsight.org/what-is-xylitol/#:~:text=Xylitol%20i....

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by klodolph on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:08AM (#40598335)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol

> Xylitol occurs naturally in small amounts in plums, strawberries, cauliflower, and pumpkin; humans and many other animals make trace amounts during metabolism of carbohydrates.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by jqgatsby on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:16AM (#40598436)
Agree strongly. Another good example is industrial seed oils: canola/rapeseed oil, and even things thar sound innocuous like sunflower seed oil. Avoid, avoid, stick to olive oil which has been field tested for millenia.

It reminded me a couple of days ago of that scene from the Princess Bride: https://x.com/jqgatsby/status/1798395071353717183?t=0CZzGU7_...

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by sampo on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:28AM (#40598612)
"The human body also produces 5–15 g xylitol per day during normal carbohydrate metabolism in the liver"

Page 347 in: http://www.chemistry-chemists.com/chemister/Pishevye/sweeten...

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by HumblyTossed on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:09AM (#40598340)
> Xylitol is a sugar alcohol that is found in small amounts in fruit and vegetables, and the human body also produces it.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by bloqs on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:13AM (#40598406)
This principle is fine, but its application is the issue.

This ingredient occurs in nature frequently. Why shouldnt it be used?

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by jolt42 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:37AM (#40598733)
It appears in very small quantities in nature (raspberries apparently being the highest). What was the amount in the study (I don't have access)? I credit xylitol for much improved mouth health, but I maybe take 5g a day.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by dvh on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:55AM (#40598931)
Natural sources often contains "antidote" which could be as simple as shell, fiber or cellulose, something to limit your consumption. For example sugar cane is a wooden stick. You would have to chew it with your measly human teeth for hour to get the sugar out of it. But if it's processed into sugar powder, you don't need to chew. By processing you lost the "antidote" that would otherwise moderate your consumption. Xylitol is found in birch tree. Good luck eating birch tree.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by blcknight on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:07AM (#40598319)
Xylitol exists in nature.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by kyleee on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:11AM (#40598373)
As usual the dose makes the poison
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:15PM (#40599925)
Do you extend that rule to toothpaste?
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by coding123 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:08AM (#40598336)
It kills a lot of animals very quickly with a low dose... I stay away from the stuff
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by throwawa14223 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598356)
Xylitol gum stopped chronic ear pain for me. It'd be hard to give up, but I do like having a heart.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by distances on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:52AM (#40598896)
Millions upon millions of people chew xylitol gum every day. If you're actually observing direct benefits yourself, I'm sure those greatly outweigh any potential downsides.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by skmurphy on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:40PM (#40599499)
This is one study, if you are seeing a benefit I would continue to use it but remain alert to new research.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by OutOfHere on Thursday June 06, 2024 @02:23PM (#40600689)
Apparently your ear pain is referred from an oral infection which xylitol helps with. You can consider xylitol mouthwash instead that is spit out. Pure table salt (without additives) also makes a decent antimicrobial mouthwash.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by 0cf8612b2e1e on Friday June 07, 2024 @02:42PM (#40611612)
That sounds horrible. How much salt are we talking taking and for how long? If I only had iodized salt, is that going to make a difference?

Chemically, it makes sense, but I doubt my mouth loves being exposed to a salt bath either.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by OutOfHere on Friday June 07, 2024 @10:19PM (#40614785)
If it sounds horrible, it's because your interpretation of it is horrible, also horribly wrong. Iodine doesn't matter, but such salt is almost always coupled with numerous other additives that can be quite harmful to the teeth, e.g. starches, sugars, etc. It is best to get pure salt.

If not having an active infection, it needs to be done only at night before bed. It is not a big deal if you don't eat or drink anything after it. Do not swallow it while you rinse it. The moment you drink something after it, that's when it becomes horrible.

If having an infection, it is better to do it at least three times a day while you're waiting for professional treatment, e.g. antibiotics and/or a root canal.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by OutOfHere on Friday June 07, 2024 @09:13AM (#40608419)
I forgot to tell you yesterday that if antibiotics don't fix any recurring or underlying dental infection that you may have, you may then very much need x-rays and perhaps a root canal.

Besides the ear, it can also cause a headache, plus sharp pain in the back of the head, so it's good that you are keeping it in control.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by throwawa14223 on Saturday June 15, 2024 @10:34AM (#40690067)
My doctor checked for that with a CT scan and X-ray. I have a spot where my sinus narrows that is prone to infection but no abscesses or anything like that, but thank you I know this advice could be very important.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by superposeur on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:10AM (#40598363)
I started reading the different sections of the paper and —- wait, no, this is still the Abstract!
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by AlbertCory on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:12AM (#40598391)
Interestingly, the NeilMed sinus rinse I use has a "xylitol added" version. But you can also buy the regular saline-bicarb powder on Amazon, thank God.

Xylitol! Who TF wants that up their nose?

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by 542458 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:18AM (#40598460)
Xylitol in nasal spray helps pull liquid into the nasal passages which helps if you have dry nasal passages and reduces your risk of contracting airborne infections. The amount of Xylitol is also tiny compared to what you get from even natural sources (which, granted, is different than inhaling it).
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by skmurphy on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:38PM (#40599475)
Xylitol kills strep bacteria and breaks down biofilms. It's a useful addition to toothpaste and sinus rinse to help breakdown plaque and prevent ear infections or throat infections by strep bacteria. It's also used in wound care formulations as a paste applied to a wound to help inhibit biofilm formation that slows healing.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by AlbertCory on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:48PM (#40599585)
Well, that might be. However, the Precautionary Principle applies here for me: saline and bicarb just mimic the chemistry inside your nose. Xylitol isn't necessary, so why introduce it? Who knows what side effects it might have?

YMMV.

Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by skmurphy on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:53PM (#40599648)
Reasonable men may differ.
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by dev_tty01 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @11:21AM (#40598506)
How much risk? How much Xylitol? Disappointed those numbers aren't mentioned in the results section. Without seeing more, leaving that out leads me to suspect that the risk is low and the level of Xylitol is quite high. The links to get access to the article weren't working for me. Anyone have another link?
Re:Xylitol is associated with cardiovascular risk by 11001100 on Monday June 10, 2024 @07:12AM (#40632286)