Obviously that's not how they're meant to be used, but you bring up a good point about the interaction of policy and behavior. These policies cannot be made without consideration for what behavior they will incentivize. In the case of disposable grocery bag bans, requiring that said disposable bags be made of more sturdy plastic so as to technically qualify as reusable is only going to harm the environment more as consumer habits won't change. The solution, of course, is not to throw up our hands and declare that nothing can be done. Banning the sale of these technically-reusable bags at point-of-sale very well might solve the problem and cause consumer behavior to shift as the sustainable practice of bringing your own bags becomes the most convenient one.

Some people find utility in these sturdier plastic bags, so a general ban would only do harm. They just specifically shouldn't be sold at checkout like disposable bags used to be.

How much do you pay for them?

For bags, there is no reason for a store to give them out. You had to pay for a wallet to hold your cash and cards, a purse to hold them if you don'f have pockets. No need for bags to be a cost center for a store.

$40 per bag here, too little to worry about

Why don't you use reusable bags? I have a couple that fold up and go in my back pocket.

That's utterly ridiculous and highly inconvenient for nearly everyone that isn't proselytizing about reusable sacks or needs to purchase more than a few items. What works for dedicated urbanists doesn't fly for the other 85% of the population.

Reusable bags are nearly universally unsanitary. People let their cats play in them, never wash them, then place them on the same conveyor belt where you put your vegetables.

I don't think it's utterly ridiculous for most people. It's very common here in the Netherlands and I'm not sure the average Dutch person is so extremely peculiar to the rest of society. It's really no more inconvenient than carrying the bank card I need to pay for my purchase and in the worst case scenario if I forget it I can just buy a new bag to reuse with my other items.

Regarding how clean they are, I just wash mine in the washing machine and I wash my vegetables as well.

> Because that's utterly ridiculous and highly inconvenient for nearly everyone that isn't proselytizing about reusable sacks

No

Here in Aotearoa they are completely normal

> Reusable bags are nearly universally unsanitary...place them on the same conveyor belt where you put your vegetables.

Golly. Given the habits of growers you really should wash your vegetables before you use them. Pesticides

Not just growers, I don't think grocery store employees are washing their hands religiously when they're putting this stuff out.

I worked in a supermarket. They aren't washing their hands at all and they might well be playing football with your bread rolls.

These days I often see the grocers using gloves when stocking shelves.

Single use plastic gloves?

> Single use plastic gloves?

Probably.

Clean hands are better, IMO, than those gloves

Indeed. I used to work in a supermarket and we used those gloves. It just meant that the hands got really sweaty and nasty before the gloves inevitably ripped and put your manky hands in contact with the product anyway. By the end of my tenure I just washed my hands before each task.

Pesticides are water soluble. Cat feces is not.

When you wash something you're not dissolving contaminants - you're mechanically removing them. Most bacteria are not water soluble yet we manage to wash them off our hands.

> Most bacteria are not water soluble yet we manage to wash them off our hands.

We use soap.

Well, I do

someone else's chicken blood is probably worse to get on your veg than pesticides. The bacteria can infiltrate the veg.

You are throwing away durable, reusable, functioning products after one use? .. Why?

The only situation where OP isn’t an idiot is food delivery. If you get your groceries delivered, I don’t think there is a formal feed back mechanism. (Though your grocery store would almost certainly accept them back.)

It's an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice. Calling people idiots isn't constructive, and besides, one may not be an idiot for simply not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill. It's just different judgements about what's important.

> an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice

Why do you have rancid meat juice in your grocery bag!? Why do you have rancid meat!

> not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill

I don’t particularly care about this. I still have a couple reusable bags in the back of my car that I use to transport food from the grocery store home. (I never have to deal with bags breaking. And my town charges for single-use paper bags, which I think is a fair compromise.)

When rancid meat juice raises its head, it’s rare and immediately dealt with by cleaning out the fridge. I’d be worried for a friend citing exposure to it as not only a regularity, but inevitability.

You've never had a package of meat leak a little juice in to the grocery bag? If you have, you either wash it (inconvenient) or you have rancid meat juice if you don't (it doesn't start rancid).

Yea, taking 5 seconds to rinse the bag out in the sink is _such_ an inconvenience. Life is rough.

I stopped buying meat for environmental / water usage reasons a while back, so no, this isn't an issue for me anymore. Guess I'm just a stupid hippie.

> Yea, taking 5 seconds to rinse the bag out in the sink is _such_ an inconvenience.

The old "you're just not doing it right" chestnut, where have I heard that one before! Hey, by any chance have you noticed how many of those silly face masks made it (or didn't make it) to landfills?

> I stopped buying meat . . . Guess I'm just a stupid hippie.

You said it not me!

> You've never had a package of meat leak a little juice in to the grocery bag?

Not frequently! If that’s happening, the butcher is doing a bad job sealing the package or the meat isn’t fresh.

I agree in those situations I’d likely toss the bag versus rinse it. But this is—and should be—a once every couples years problem. (And I buy meat almost every time I go to the grocery store.)

> You've never had a package of meat leak a little juice in to the grocery bag?

No, and if it was a common occurrence I'd find a different butcher that can actually package the meat properly.

There have been a few times I've washed a bag because it got dirty. It wasn't really inconvenient. I just tossed it in the laundry with the rest of my clothes. Or do you also just throw away clothes once they get a little dirty?

You're assuming the bag actually makes it to the landfill. MANY do not. Also, the rancid meat juice issue sounds like a problem specific to you. I certainly don't have that issue.

sounds like a skill issue

Walmart have made their bags ridiculously small to make you buy more

If the grocery store made plastic bags that didn't have holes in them all the time, they make a good pooper-scooper bag and thus reusable.

Yeah, I used to keep all my grocery bags and use them as garbage bags, at least that got a reuse out of them.

We used to use them for this all the time!

I get doggie poop bags that are allegedly compostable. I never have to worry about the condition of the bag, they come in neat rolls for the dispenser on my leash. They're way handier than disposable shopping bags and cost a few pennies each. I buy a case of them and they last me a few years at a time.

They do seem to be somewhat water soluble. I left some out in the rain one time and they got oddly mushy and weaker, different from regular plastic.