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Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by amou234 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @02:14AM (#39987475)
The last blurb in the article is the most damning part.

"Ma spends much of his time abroad, especially in Japan where he is a visiting professor at Tokyo College, a research institute run by the University of Tokyo"

Jack Ma has no hope for China, as evident by his action. The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. But Jack sees the real pictures on the ground in China. And he chooses Japan.

And the young in China knows it too. That's why the young are laying flat. and sneaking through Mexico into US. and fleeing to Cambodia and Myanmar for work.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by fransje26 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @04:10AM (#39988210)
> The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image.

Or directly written by them under his name..

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by amou234 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @04:19AM (#39988265)
wouldn't put it past the Chinese government.

The young in China are so disillusioned, they are buying gold in droves this year [1] (instead of putting it in bank, or invest in stock market or real estate)

[1] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240221-youth-appetit...

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by cm2187 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:45AM (#39988066)
Do you read his teaching job as a pretext to be in Japan or has his wealth been somewhat confiscated?
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by UberFly on Thursday April 11, 2024 @01:03AM (#39998556)
Just a best guess: I think essentially he's been officially hobbled in China but not technically under house arrest, so-to-speak. There's not much future for him in China. His wealth is likely a key-stroke away from being confiscated and he knows it.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by starspangled on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @02:53AM (#39987715)
The young in China knows what? What do you mean by laying flat, and do you have any data for emigration trends?
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by re on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @02:57AM (#39987738)
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by 55555 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:17AM (#39987870)
This is a phenomenon we see in the entire developed world, or possibly the entire world, including in the west and Japan (NEETs, Hikikomori).
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:45AM (#39988065)
> a phenomenon we see in the entire developed world, or possibly the entire world

No. The difference is the talented and otherwise ambitious are being sacrificed by an older generation to an exceptional degree in China. That's happening elsewhere, too. But because the political systems are not dictatorships, they're able to adapt.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by maxglute on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:43AM (#39988050)
Tanping is just slacking. Tanping kids still work. But it's still the same phenonmenon as the developed world, PRC single kids who grew up with silver spoon and high expectations realizing that they're pretty mid, and can't out compete their "betters". So they slack and take life easier. It's basically the normal distribution in every western workplace. Workers with prospects still grind to work their way up the (involution) rat race . Western media portrays it as big deal, but it's not even western "antiwork" work level of subversive.

Emerging PRC analogues to NEETs/Hikikomori are "full time kids". TLDR is high savings rate and culture = kids live with parents and do bumfuck while looking for jobs they think are their level. Some will settle for employment beneath them, some will live off their parents dime if their parents can support it. Cause is PRC went from single digit to 60% tertiary rate in last 20 years, there's too much talent/competition last few years as graduating classes got larger and larger but not enough jobs uni kids want.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by dageshi on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @04:41AM (#39988389)
I think it's a bit more serious than that. Those self same "mid" kids would've had no problems meeting expectations if they'd been born 10 or 20 years ago because China was experiencing one of the most unprecedented growth periods in history.

If growth stalls but expectations of what "success" looks like in life remain the same then inevitably the more rational amongst them will look and see that just achieving a "normal" life seems incredibly difficult.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by maxglute on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @05:05AM (#39988548)
Those same mid kids would likely work a medicore blue collar job but be able to afford real estate after a few years of saving while the market was low. Some of them might be lucky and have first mover entreprenured their way to being million/billionaires despite not being very bright (like Ma). Same lament as kids in west when their parents worked mid jobs and could raise a family. Dual income young professional households who can't buy a house while their parents without degrees have multipe + land in cottage country. Now PRC kids dealing with same shit kids in west are, academic inflation + increase cost of living + easy speculative R/E wealth is gone. Meanwhile no one wants to do "hard" work because they spend too much time in school to do manual labour. They want top 10% income air conditioned office jobs befitting their degree.

I'm not saying it's not serious, it's also not particularly special to PRC. Like the few tanping kids I hear about IRL in PRC are like your typical western kids with comfortably wealthy boomer parents who can afford to fuck around because they got safety net/inheritance down the line. Everyone else grinding while joking about tanping, like antiwork folks in the west bitch about their conditions, but eat continue to eat shit all the same.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @09:17AM (#39990370)
the difference is that there isn't 1 billion people in the west -- US (330M) + Europe (500M) still isn't close. lots of space in the US to move to, also.

and the ability to be extremely vocal about it -- which could get you sent to jail or otherwise ruin your life via social credit scores.

point is, the kids in China have it notably rough.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by Dalewyn on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:25AM (#39987924)
No, NEET stands for "Not Employed, Educating, or Training" and Hikikomori translates literally to "Pulling Back In". Both phenomena result in the individual abdicating his productivity in deference to pursuits such as resolving crises and introspection.

Tang Ping on the other hand is a phenomenon where the individual only produces as much as his environment demands of him. If he contracted with his employer to work 9 to 5, he will work 9 to 5 and not a second more. If his work description is producing Powerpoint slides, he will produce Powerpoint slides and only Powerpoint slides. If he is remote work, he will quit rather than come into the office. He will then use the freed up time and energy on other pursuits he deems worthy.

Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by dragonelite on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:57AM (#39988127)
So Tang ping is quiet quitting, i pretty much do the same 95% of the time. The boss pays me from 9 to 5 so once its 5 and no important deadline i stop at 5 and live my life.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by cm2187 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:42AM (#39988042)
In other words the Homo Sovieticus.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by tsimionescu on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @05:41AM (#39988775)
The Soviet work ethic was "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work". It wasn't about doing the bare minimum for your job, it was about finding creative ways to do much less than the bare minimum.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by em500 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @11:35AM (#39991916)
This goes by many different names in many different countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by mensetmanusman on Thursday April 11, 2024 @09:20AM (#40001820)
The youth in china are overwhelmingly overeducated _relative_ to their economic structure.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by serial_dev on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @04:33AM (#39988339)
Only because there is a term for it in Chinese, it doesn't mean this problem unique to China in any way. And it also didn't start in 2022 when "quiet quitting" became popular, it's a tale as old as time.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by appplication on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @10:41AM (#39991226)
Of course he has no hope. I recall he suddenly disappeared for a long time after criticizing the Chinese government. It seems entirely possible he was held against his will for forced reeducation. Hard to believe in the country that does that to you.
Re:Alibaba founder Jack Ma steps out from shadows with long ... by somedude895 on Thursday April 11, 2024 @12:54AM (#39998511)
> The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government.

Could have been written simply out of fear as well. No matter where he goes, he's not safe from the CCP, so better try and stay in their good graces.