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Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by PedroBatista on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:32PM (#39919537)
What do you mean?! Americans don't want to keep buying $80K pickup-trucks? What is the world coming to..

Also car leases from 2021's COVID money are coming to the end. Not only dealers can't move anything but also people are going to have a "nice" surprise when they learn the value of their overpriced 2021 car is nowhere near what they imagined.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by acdha on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:42PM (#39919657)
Not just pandemic aid money but also loan rates - many people were making those luxury trucks and SUVs work by getting 5+ year loans under 4% but rates are over 7% now and that’s going to make a big difference in your monthly payments.

If you’ve been feeling pinched anywhere else, that’s going to make you reconsider if you’re one of the many pickup owners who bought it as a fashion accessory rather than for need:

> According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by LeafItAlone on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:52PM (#39919796)
That usage data isn’t really helpful since owners can use them exclusively for one or the other. Without changing those statistics, each owner still may need a truck if they are constantly doing another.

That’s likely not the case, but I’m fairly certain the real world usage isn’t as bad as that seems.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by acdha on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:02PM (#39920769)
It’s possible that those groups are disjoint enough that every truck owner uses it for one of those functions but not the others, and does so to an extent that they can’t use another vehicle (e.g. uses the bed for more than fits in a car, etc.), but that seems unlikely. The sales have boomed for years and it seems unlikely that there are so many new ranchers or tradespeople, etc. especially given that most of the trucks you see on the road outside of rural areas are in pristine condition with no signs of being used to tow anything.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by mulmen on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:54PM (#39919827)
I keep seeing this quote but as stated those numbers allow for all truck owners to use their trucks for any of hauling, towing, or offroading 100% of the time.

I share the perception that pickups are underutilized but this quote really doesn’t support that belief.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by ta1243 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:49PM (#39919758)
Personal loans in the UK are typically a fixed interest rate for the length of the loan -- I did some home improvements in 2021 and took a 7 year loan at 2%
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by buggeryorkshire on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:49PM (#39920619)
Their point is that when they try and trade in their 3 year old truck which they got a low interest rate for a new one, not only is their truck worth bugger-all to trade in but their next interest rate will probably be doubled or more.

Hence they'll stick with their current one so one less sale.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by zdragnar on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:53PM (#39919818)
The same is true for many auto and home loans in the US. The point, I think, is that you have much less purchasing power now that rates have gone up than before.

Trucks are fantastic vehicles if you can afford them, but a 7% rate on a new $80k truck is beyond most people right now.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by Simon_ORourke on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:06PM (#39920033)
That seems about right, most of my neighbors use their pickup to drive to Costco and little else.

It's an ego/narcissist thing mostly about being seen driving a bit vroom vroom.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by 7thaccount on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:47PM (#39919719)
I'd love to buy a cheap truck with no bells and whistles (under $25k) with a simple V6 (no hybrid or turbocharged 4 cylinder and a dozen other components sure to fail). The problem is they make more money selling $80k-$120k trucks and until recently... people kept buying them. Hopefully the market reverses. As a result, a tiny Toyota truck no longer exists in the US. I'm sure emissions standards and the overall increasing size of people in the US has played a role as well.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by jqpabc123 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:11PM (#39920115)
I'd love o buy a cheap truck with no bells and whistles (under $25k) with a simple V6

Sounds like you're looking for a "work truck".

A lot of these $100K monstrosities only haul the owner's ego. They're too afraid to haul anything else in it --- it might get scratched.

But from the manufacturer's perspective --- why build a cheap truck if people will buy the monstrosity? There is a lot more profit to be made from it.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by 7thaccount on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:40PM (#39922799)
Lol I'm from the south where practically everyone has to have one and thus familiar with the terminology, but it goes deeper than that.

It used to be you could get something like a Chevy S10. It wasn't really a work truck, but a small truck for running errands without paying $100 at the pump. They don't seem to make any small trucks like that anymore. Even the supposedly Spartan work trucks are goliaths in terms of size and cost.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by jqpabc123 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @05:10PM (#39923193)
Lol I'm from the south where practically everyone has to have one...

Why "everyone has to have one"?

I dare say that "everyone" really don't know --- but they still want one.

In other words, "everyone" has been brainwashed by marketing and peer pressure and convinced to ignore their own reality and buy something they don't really need and can't really afford.

And leading them like cattle to slaughter, the auto industry has been laughing all the way to the bank.

But reality is persistent and refuses to be ignored for too long.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by 7thaccount on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:30PM (#39925566)
It's a generational thing. If your daddy had one and his daddy had one, you have to have one or you're a wimp.

Granted, their grandfather or great-grandfather was probably a farmer or blue collar or lived in a rural area that was off-road, so it may have made sense. However, most of my neighbors are all white collar, but still drive trucks because that's just what's done. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:16PM (#39926192)
The generational thing is called toxic masculinity.

What a perfect example of why it’s called “toxic” - because it forces men today to make decisions that aren’t otherwise optimal to protect their perceived masculinity in the face of their peers and elders.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by ethbr1 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:29AM (#39926871)
Assuming they're being forced to buy a large trunk is a big leap.

Maybe allow them agency and accept the possibility they want one?

The whole "I know a person's motivations better than they do" thing has gotten a bit out of hand.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Friday April 05, 2024 @11:02PM (#39949649)
> you have to have one or you're a wimp.

This was phrasing I was responding to, why are you suggesting I was speaking more broadly?

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by 7thaccount on Thursday April 04, 2024 @05:48AM (#39928340)
Maybe. I'd probably just call it tradition though.

Toxic masculinity may be a thing, but I see that brought up for what seems like everything now.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Friday April 05, 2024 @10:59PM (#39949626)
Tradition is a funny word to use for trucks which were invented within a single human lifespan of today.

Are you sure you’re not the one overloading a term?

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:14PM (#39926177)
Chevy s10 is Chevy Colorado today

Ford ranger is Ford Maverick today

Both are under 30k, why do you think they aren’t selling and the ford f150 is? Gas mileage?

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by 7thaccount on Thursday April 04, 2024 @05:50AM (#39928353)
The Colorado and Maverick are both much larger than their ancestors. That's kind of my point.

At least over here, the Maverick IS selling so well they can't keep them in stock, because... people can't afford an $80k-$120k truck.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by chung8123 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:03PM (#39935154)
The requirements for cars and trucks have changed a lot as well. You need a lot more safety equipment which adds to size.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Friday April 05, 2024 @11:08PM (#39949668)
How long have they been out of stock and how do their historic sales relate to the larger f150, ram etc?

Are ford et al ignoring demand for smaller trucks as you are suggesting, or does the data show a demand for ever larger trucks up until interest rates started dropping?

What’s the time it takes to spin up extra production of different product lines of trucks do you think?

This link seems to suggest the ford maverick is actually smaller than the ford ranger: https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/08/ford-maverick-size-compa... perhaps this is a reaction to more recent demand for smaller trucks and trucks in foreign markets which generally prefer smaller vehicles

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by jqpabc123 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:03AM (#39930536)
Both are under 30k, why do you think they aren’t selling and the ford f150 is? Gas mileage?

Time to check your rhetoric. Ford can't build the Maverick fast enough.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-maverick-sales-jump-83-4-...

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by chung8123 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:05PM (#39935179)
The numbers are still a fraction of what the F150 sells.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by cherry_tree on Friday April 05, 2024 @11:05PM (#39949660)
Are you suggesting that ford is intentionally making the f150 in bulk knowing that the maverick would actually sell better if they manufactured that in bulk instead?
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by darth_avocado on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:50PM (#39919767)
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by zdragnar on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:54PM (#39919839)
If it can't go on a freeway, it is not an option for many people.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by switchbak on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:55PM (#39919860)
Or a 10k Toyota IMV 0.

Seriously - a simple, inexpensive yet utilitarian Toyota?? Yes please.

But of course, they won't sell that in North America.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by baggy_trough on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:16PM (#39920186)
That's because the U.S. government doesn't allow it.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by sofixa on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:26PM (#39920348)
Depending on what you want that truck for, there are options: if it's for the storage capacity and volume, there are work vans (Ford Transit Connect / Renault Kangoo); if it's for offroading, there are vehicles like Subaru's whole lineup; if it's for towing I don't know but I'm sure there are vehicles capable of towing that aren't pickups.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by ethbr1 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:32AM (#39926881)
> but I'm sure there are vehicles capable of towing that aren't pickups.

Based on what I've seen, UHaul will happy weld a trailer hitch to almost anything.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by nurple on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:36PM (#39919578)
Good point on the lease returns! I suspect they'll probably be quietly offering sweetheart deals for lease buyouts. They'd be stupid to let those vehicles hit the used market.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:56PM (#39919872)
> Americans don't want to keep buying $80K pickup-trucks?

They're about ~30% more expensive when you don't have ZIRP and have ~7% interest instead.

So that's probably half of the plunge - the other half being people aren't getting stuffed to the brim with government handouts.

Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by sandclock on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @03:18PM (#39921793)
What government handouts are you talking about? Stimulus ended years ago and food stamps can't go towards vehicle purchases.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:14PM (#39922488)
People didn't spend all their pandemic surplus government transfers until relatively recently...
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by sema4hacker on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:59PM (#39919921)
Toyota needs to get their IMV 0 truck into the USA asap. They'll make a fortune.
Re:Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit's Profit Engine by stalfosknight on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:52PM (#39919806)
No one should be surprised by the purchase price at the end of the lease. It's written in the lease itself from the get go.