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Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @06:49PM (#39911695)
Having used the UK/US type self checkout machines while travelling, I must say it is so nice to live in Northern Europe where the self checkout machines are largely just based on trust, with randomly sampling ~five items of every 100 shoppers. There is no weighing at any of the stores.

If you don't get randomly selected for inspection, there is nothing stopping you from just walking out with groceries you didn't pay for worth a hundred dollars easy. People just don't. Another benefit of having a proper social safety net I guess.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by robertlagrant on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:04PM (#39911804)
> Another benefit of having a proper social safety net I guess.

I doubt it's as simple as this. People don't only steal because they could technically afford things. Just as people don't only kill in self defence.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by ScoobleDoodle on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:32PM (#39911998)
Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality. So even those that can afford it will still try to get more since it's everyone for themselves.

Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by wolverine876 on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:58PM (#39912152)
> Social safety net is more than just being able to afford it. It's a combination of not being able to afford it and general erosion of social values leading to "take what you can get away with" mentality.

There's a causal arrow in the other direction, IMHO: People like to believe in the 'law of the jungle' mentality and thus vote to cut the safety net. IME it's especially wealthy people for whom it's a kind of game, not trauma, deprivation (of education, health care, food, housing, safety) and survival, and who also get to pay lower taxes, Didn't Jamie Dimon talk about how he liked how 'animal spirits' have been awakened?

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by doktrin on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @08:52PM (#39912502)
A lot of house cats walking around imagining themselves to be lions.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by robertlagrant on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:16AM (#39914789)
> Instead of cooperation under a system with a social safety net, we get a game theoretic weighting on defection without a social safety net.

There is a safety net. Here's how I'd describe the situation:

There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was good that they were helped.

There will be a number of people, fewer than the total who benefit from the safety net, who almost everyone would say it was not good that they were helped.

Most of politics around this topic is people's differing beliefs in the proportions of the above, and how bought in they are to minimising the latter count because they pay taxes.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by moffkalast on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @05:13AM (#39915071)
> who almost everyone would say it was not good that they were helped

I'm sorry, what? Only in the US helping someone can be sold as a bad thing. It's better to help a few more people that may not really need it than help a few fewer that actually did.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by robertlagrant on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:50AM (#39916772)
> I'm sorry, what? Only in the US helping someone can be sold as a bad thing. It's better to help a few more people that may not really need it than help a few fewer that actually did.

I think it's worth reading the complete comment and you'll see where what you said fits my wider point.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by adolph on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @10:55PM (#39913166)

  I enjoy stealin', it's just as simple as that
  Oh well, it's just a simple fact
  When I want something, man, I don't wanna pay for it
https://genius.com/Janes-addiction-been-caught-stealing-lyri...
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by WrongAssumption on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:18PM (#39911911)
I’ve never been nor seen anyone in the US get inspected at a self checkout. Not once.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by ScoobleDoodle on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:28PM (#39911973)
That's because all of the self checkouts in the US use the weight change to match against the scanned item and any discrepancy leads to having to wait for a self-checkout attendant to manually override to let you continue. That manual override is equivalent to the inspection you're talking about not seeing. And I in the US get blocked needing an attendant 60%+ of the time at some point in the process. Usually up front with the bags I brought from home.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by kaashif on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:44PM (#39912058)
At the Target next to where I live, the self checkouts don't weigh anything at all. I just scan something and put it in my backpack on the floor most of the time. And this is a Target where the toothpaste is locked up! I've never needed help from an attendant, and I've never been inspected either.

Obviously it varies location by location.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by Izkata on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @08:44PM (#39912457)
That's happened maybe 4 or 5 times to me in the 200 trips or so (estimated, once a week for years) I've made since I started using the self-checkout every time. It's so reliable and fast for me (store: Jewel-Osco), I just don't have the problems others here are seeing. Usually while waiting in line I don't see anyone else have issues either.

Remove from basket, scan, put in bag. Remove from basket, scan, put in bag.

The scale is the entire bagging area, and it detects when things were removed or added without being scanned, as far as I know that's all it does here. No specific weights.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by Solvency on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @08:56PM (#39912531)
Literally not true. neither Whole Foods nor Gelsons weigh anything you scan.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by astura on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:53AM (#39916799)
>That's because all of the self checkouts in the US use the weight change to match against the scanned item

Objectively false. Some stores in some areas do that. Most don't.

At Walmart if I only have a few items (most of the time I go to Walmart) I'll just grab the scan gun and scan everything without taking anything out of my cart. I'll bag when I get to the car.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by bluedino on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:48PM (#39912085)
I know that Krogers has cameras that use some sort of intelligence. I held an object in my hand as I moved other items across the scanner, it set of an alarm and a bunch of still images of my checkout process came up with colored shapes highlighting different on screen items
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by opinion-is-bad on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:55PM (#39912134)
They recently installed a little door at my self checkout. I cannot even walk out of my grocery store without scanning a receipt or flagging an employee to open the door. It’s frustrating.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by oxguy3 on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:35PM (#39912010)
Might be your neighborhood -- stores with a low shrink rate might be more lax about inspections. I've only encountered it a few times myself but I'm also not the primary shopper in my household.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by dambi0 on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:04PM (#39911800)
A lot of the waiting is for age restricted items or machine errors rather than trust issues. I have never once been randomly sampled after self surface purchase in either the UK/US.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by DangitBobby on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:20PM (#39911918)
Without trust issues there would be no machine errors in my experience. Anytime there's an issue it's because I'm scanning too fast for the machine and it can't figure out how the weights work. Or I selected the wrong type of garlic and only the associate is allowed to remove items (why would you not let me remove items I personally added??).
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by dambi0 on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:49PM (#39912092)
Fair, the inability to remove your own items seems maybe a hang-up from an older view of privileged cashiers. The store I currently use doesn’t have weight checks except for weighed produce. You can leave your stuff in the cart and with the wireless scanner and a bit of forethought everything can stay in there. Different trust models makes things interesting. I have never been checked leaving the store and I don’t think social safety net or otherwise is the driving factor
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by saalweachter on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @08:10PM (#39912224)
Yeah, the not being able to remove items grinds my gears.

It's especially annoying when I am waving an item furiously, trying to get the poorly printed barcode to scan, and when it finally accepts it, it double scans the item.

Then when I have to stand there waiting for someone to remove the item is usually where I get disgusted with the process and give up on shopping, especially when it happens multiple times.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by Muromec on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:45PM (#39912067)
It’s definitely trust issues here in the Netherlands.

Buying something for under 5 euro bucks in a shop where middle school kids buy their lunches is almost guaranteed check. More than one in three times.

A different shop and a bigger amount — checks almost never

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by dannyobrien on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @09:57PM (#39912860)
The weighing thing seems to be an adjustable feature: in my /extremely/ low-trust Safeway in San Francisco, they started with narrow weight limits that were super-frustrating. Now that misfeature is turned off completely (but they have a little gate you need to wave your receipt at).

I imagine everyone is still playing around to get the optimum ease-of-use vs shoplifting ratio right.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by siva7 on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @11:23PM (#39913304)
Mandatory item weighting was standard procedure in many western europe self-checkout kiosks for years. The experience sucked and the solution felt over-engineered. They just dropped it recently and moved to a trust-based model overseen by a single employee. Now it's much faster.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by callalex on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:34AM (#39914278)
Is it a social safety net or stronger legal protections for retailers? In the USA the store has no legal right to detain you and spot check your receipt. Membership stores can revoke your membership for noncompliance and then not let you in anymore without a membership, but that is the closest you’ll find here.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by astura on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:48AM (#39916199)
You can't makes broad, sweeping generalizations like "UK/US type self checkout." It varies so much.

I live in the US and the only place I ever go to where they weigh the items you scanned is Costco. Everywhere else I go (my local Walmart, Target, two local grocery stores, CVS) the self checkout is mostly based on trust with one employee somewhat monitoring some machines. No random sampling.

The only issue I ever run into with the self checkouts is double scanning the product. You do need employee to void items.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by tim333 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:56AM (#39916827)
I was disappointed when my Waitrose at Kings Cross London got rid of the non weighing machines and replaced them with regular ones. I think the non weighing ones end up costing the store more either through people nicking stuff or having to have staff watch them.