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Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by mmaunder on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @05:50PM (#3979086)
Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site.

With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a conversion because your intent is still to get back to Facebook as soon as possible and see the rest of Dave's party photos or whatever.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:16PM (#3979198)
Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching.

She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had the Good Wife available to watch via streaming video. To you and I, it's obvious that this "first result" is ad and we would skip over it to the first result. But to my mom, she thinks it's a search result and clicks on it. When she arrives on the site she thinks she's on the CBS site because they naively assumes like many consumers that the site showing the content would be CBS. She doesn't even think twice about the identity. When you are used to TV, you blindly trust that the site/channel showing the content is the correct one.

The only reason I discovered this was because she asked me to pull up The Good Wife to watch on CBS. I, being a savvier internet user, just navigated straight to cbs.com to search there. I got to their Good Wife site and lo and behold, there is no streaming video available on CBS, only teasers and behind the scenes content. I told my mom that "No, CBS doesn't have it on their site" and she was like "Yeah they do. I watch it all the time". I then asked her to show me exactly how she found it on CBS and that was when she showed me that she in fact was clicking on the ad in Google Search between the search box and the search results thinking it was in fact the first result. That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by vm on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:47PM (#3979336)
Facebook has ads that people like your mother will think are from friends. If users can't tell the different between Google Ads and search terms (or between CBS and a random site), they're unlikely to distinguish between newsfeed updates from friends and paid ads.

You're right that that's totally different from intent. But it's valuable for brands which spend billions [1] per year on exposure-focused ads, like product placement.

[1] http://adage.com/article/madisonvine-news/product-placement-...

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by davvid on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:20PM (#3979486)
If users can't tell the different between Google Ads and search terms (or between CBS and a random site), they're unlikely to distinguish between newsfeed updates from friends and paid ads

That's a big assumption to make. The bar is low for search results because they have no personality.

For friends -- we know our friends. They have a distinct personality. Ads disguised as messages from friends could have a negative effect because of this dissonance.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by girlvinyl on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:59PM (#3979606)
Typically when someone "likes" a product or service, that shows up as the ad. For example, my father "liked" Carnival cruises, this makes sense as he's been searching for a cruise lately. The ad showed his picture next to a Carnival ad. It looks very authentic if you're not paying close attention.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:28PM (#3979512)
Can you link to some screenshots with examples of ads in the newsfeed that someone like my mother would confuse as being from a friend or family member?

I'm inclined to agree with davvid on his point about how personality isn't a distinguishing factor between Google Ads and Google Search Results.

On top of that, intent is was drives the conversion. Even if my mom were to inadvertently click on an ad in her newsfeed thinking it was from a family member, the content of the page she was redirected to would definitely let her know she had made a mistake and that the status update definitely wasn't from a friend or family member.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by pmorici on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:42PM (#3979314)
"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that."

Sure they do...

Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!"

Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife"

Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by molmalo on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:10PM (#3979444)
Let me ask you something:

When you want to search something, do you first go to your facebook account and tell your friends "hey, I want to learn more about x!" and then go to your favorite search engine, and actually do your search?

I bet you don't.

In your example, if the mom is saying "tonight", it probably means that she wants to see it "tonight" (maybe she doesn't have the time right now). so, they should try to make the ad really visible that very night, so the user (this mum) will see it before she even goes to look for it anywhere else. But that would feel very creepy. She would think "how did they knew I wanted that?". It would feel like if someone is spying her. I think the average people is ok to have ads displayed while searching (maybe they will not even notice that some "results" are ads). But when the ads start having a very direct relation to what people posts, they start to worry about their privacy.

What I mean is... sure, facebook could infer the user intention, but in comparison, a search engine has it almost served.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by gaius on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @05:34AM (#3981285)
I dunno, I see lots of looking forward to new Game of Thrones type statuses on my FB.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by Drbble on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @08:46PM (#3979767)
Look up "retargeting". Creepily chasing people around the web is successful for advertisers.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @12:42AM (#3980509)
I think retargeting is really only creepy for people like us who are smart enough to link the retargeting back to our identity because we are logged into google.

My mom (again) is subjected to retargeting, but she doesn't identify it as tied to her identity so much as tied to the current search. She uses gmail for work and her personal account (because i set up a google apps account for her), but I doubt she knows that just because she's logged into gmail that google search is tying that information back to her identity.

This is a far cry from Facebook where people know that things in Facebook are tied back to their identity, and not only that is tied back to their identity in a way that may be visible to friends and family.

Both Google and Facebook track you, but Facebook is personal, and people are aware of that fact.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by notatoad on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @09:22PM (#3979879)
It is a successful tool for ad networks to provide because advertisers pay more for it, I've yet to be convinced that it actually increases conversions. If I keep seeing an ad over and over again, I just get annoyed.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by tomkarlo on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @12:46AM (#3980529)
I've seen the number, it converts far, far better than average ads. On the order of 10X, for the campaigns I've seen. That's partially because clickthrough rates overall keep dropping, but still, they're really effective.

Yes, it's annoying if you're in the 95% of customers who won't actually convert. But it only has to be effective about 1 out of 20 times to be a huge improvement (and that 1 might even be you, but you're mostly annoyed by the other 19 times.)

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by AndyIngram on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @09:03PM (#3979821)
I think it may be more of a success for advertising companies in most circumstances.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by Jare on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:18PM (#3979481)
Most people on Facebook talk about what HAS happened, even if it's just happened on their minds. Their intent is already elsewhere. In your example, that person has mentally scheduled to watch it tonight. If she wanted to watch it earlier, she would be googling it right after posting that to FB.

If FB decides to infer intent from posts right away (when the post's content could be relevant to intent) and adopt a role of 'online assistant' with automatic instant suggestions, that will be creepy and, considering the amount of colorful emotions often present in FB posts, is sure going to cause a few interesting situations. But that's a hugely different product from the Facebook and the ad industry as we know it.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by dannyr on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:13PM (#3979454)
That intent is still vague.

Maybe the user will watch on TV. You can't tell if the user is actually looking for a way to watch the show.

If it's on Google though, the intent is much clearer.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by MartinCron on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:07PM (#3979436)
Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

You could say that Google responds to your demand while Facebook (at least in potential) creates new demands.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by tlianza on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @09:15PM (#3979858)
If we're still going with the given example, Facebook didn't create anything except a forum where a mom posted a status update.

There's no reason for an advertiser to pay to serve an ad for that. The ad was just given away for free. Unless you want to watch the show right at that moment, you wouldn't click it anyway.

So, I'm missing the part where Facebook can monetize the "new demands."

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by MartinCron on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @11:06PM (#3980263)
I was going with the example of Facebook using their knowledge my tastes, as well as the tastes of millions of people who are somewhat like me, to introduce me to things that I would have a legitimate interest in, even if I'm not searching for them.

Example: Subject is a coffee-drinking, Vespa-riding, snappy-dressing, backyard chicken-farming, photo-snapping, game-playing father of two small children. He's not looking for bluetooth cuff links, but we know that once he sees them, he'll be likely to buy because that's what other people in his micro-niche tend to buy.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by tomkarlo on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:45PM (#3979326)
It seems to me like even if it was an ad, your mom's usage connected intent with desired result better than yours. Obviously confusion isn't great, but what she said she wanted to do was "watch the Good Wife", not "watch the Good Wife on CBS".
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @12:52AM (#3980542)
Ironically, yes, definitely. I almost never watch TV, but I would have gone straight to the Pirate Bay if I were to watch it myself, because I doubted that and cable channel except Comedy Central would allow me to watch something streaming on demand from their site. TBH, when she said she had watched it on CBS' site I was skeptical.

I know illegitimate streaming sites exist out there, but I kind of assume they are ad riddled and provide a poorer experience than torrents.

I guess you could say it's one spin on the curse of knowledge.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by trotsky on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:49PM (#3979342)
I'm not really sure if or how this should rewrite your conclusions, but cbs does stream full episodes of the good wife

http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_good_wife/video/

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Thursday May 17, 2012 @03:42PM (#3988684)
The most recent episode I don't think is listed. However this may have changed from when I helped my mom with this stuff.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by Drbble on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @08:41PM (#3979751)
That's a contributory infringement lawsuit begging to get filed. Google is clearly profiting by driving users to illegal content.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by kposehn on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:34PM (#3979278)
> With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook.

It isn't about intent - it is about interest.

> And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a conversion because your intent is still to get back to Facebook as soon as possible and see the rest of Dave's party photos or whatever.

Not necessarily. I'm working with a customer right now where I have a 24% conversion rate on movie tickets. They routinely shell out $7-$21 a pop with this conversion rate; the catch is, I have to be very careful about who I target.

This kind of trend goes across the entire industry of FB ads - target well, optimize and approach based on interest and the money will follow.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by valisystem on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @06:38AM (#3981416)
Well it does not seems to be all about intent or interest, but just two distinct ways to provide insightful advertising.

But still, the intent model of google adwords seems so much more stronger, whereas facebook's interest model just look like a centralized and refined adsense. Google has long given emphasis to the long tail, the specialized interest that bring as much revenue as the mainstream one.

The intent model is clearly stronger here, as searches have an explicitly parameterized specific content, whereas the interest model can only bring up revenue on frequent and common patterns (such as you say, movie tickets), since you cannot anticipate rarely occurring interests.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by ThomPete on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:51PM (#3979357)
Interest is far from enough anymore and I think your example is an exception to prove the rule.

Go watching a movie are such an ingrained part of life for many people and thus we are always "on the look" for a good movie to go watch.

But try and do that with a car brand or any other non-commodity and intent suddently becomes the most important factor.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by kposehn on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:16PM (#3979465)
Interest can be quite enough; I'd also say that GM's is the exception instead.

Generally speaking, the majority of online advertising is geared toward interest in the first place because interest leads to intent. Facebook is earlier in the customer acquisition lifecycle as you can grab their interest before the intent, and then they'll go directly to you instead of searching.

This is why Google in general has been so scared of Facebook (not that I think they should be). What is happening is that people are figuring out ways to cut search out of the loop.

Take a look at all those online games you see on FB ads now. I can tell you that most of the MMO ad budget now goes to Facebook as you can easily get people to download the game and start playing, whereas trying to pick people off search for MMO's is obscenely expensive. As search saturates, marketers tend to move towards the point of greatest ROI, which happens to be in the interest phase.

Cars are a tough sell, no matter where you try. I'm not saying that every single type of product works on FB, just that we really should not compare FB to AdWords in the first place.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by Drbble on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @08:51PM (#3979783)
"Prove the rule" is a colloquialism that means "test the rule". The exception ends up disproving or clarifying the rule, not verifying it. It doesn't mean prove like passing that test.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by wildwood on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @09:47PM (#3979941)
Actually, "the exception that proves the rule" means that a recorded exception to a rule can be used as proof of the existence of an otherwise undocumented rule. It dates back to medieval legal terminology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by wvenable on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:07PM (#3979156)
When watching TV the intent is to watch TV, not purchase soap, a car, or a soft drink. It might be that Facebook's ads are simply the wrong type/style for the kind of interaction people use it for. It does seem like Facebook ads feel like Google search ads.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by jrockway on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:44PM (#3979324)
Or, TV ads don't actually work very well. Since we can't track conversions, we don't really know. Advertisers are paying for it, so why rain on the parade?
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by franciscoapinto on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:10PM (#3979170)
> When watching TV the intent is to watch TV, not purchase soap, a car, or a soft drink.

The difference being that facebook doesn't make you watch a 10 second ad between each one of Dave's party photos.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by wvenable on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:17PM (#3979473)
Could imagine a "Facebook brought to you by Ford" day where the entire interface is skinned -- I think that would be worth a lot of money.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by matthewcford on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:21PM (#3979215)
Clearly this is where they're failing.. should also inject pre/post roll ads on all videos
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by DEADBEEF on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:02PM (#3979404)
...worked for youtube.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by Drbble on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @08:42PM (#3979754)
Naw it was the ads overlaying the videos that made YouTube the win win experience it is.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by natrius on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:09PM (#3979165)
For brand advertisers like GM, intent is supposed to matter less. The lack of intent was always a known factor, but I personally expected big brands to be comfortable with Facebook's lower click through rates. The fact that they're not is a huge red flag.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by malandrew on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:17PM (#3979203)
True, but my impression is that most Facebook ads feel like performance ads and not display ads. I don't recall seeing GM ads on Facebook, but I would bet that they look and feel like performance ads and not display ads.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by waterlesscloud on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:41PM (#3979310)
My immediate reaction to this is that "Behemoth old company has not yet learned to optimize its Facebook messaging".
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by natrius on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @07:23PM (#3979499)
I assure you that plenty of Facebook employee time was likely spent trying to optimize their campaigns. Ten million dollar clients don't learn; they're taught.
Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by fragsworth on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:03PM (#3979131)
I wouldn't say Facebook has a huge problem here - users spend much more time on Facebook than on Google (by design) and even if they don't intend to do anything other than "use Facebook", the ads are effective as a result of their high exposure.

That said, however, a very large group of users are there to play social games. With social game companies competing for ad space (for these often highly-profitable users), they're driving up the price of ads and making it less economical for other industries to advertise on Facebook.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by hkmurakami on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:20PM (#3979212)
>With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook.

This might be the case right now, but what about in the future? I think that's what Google et al. are scared about. If users spend 90% of their internet time on Facebook, and Facebook figures out how to serve users with "What they are looking for" 5 years down the road, then users will have a very low barrier to trying out the Facebook "look-up" service.

Right now, my use of the internet is (1) sites I already know exist, or (2) Google, in order to find things.

What if this becomes (1.1) Facebook, to look at things served from other sites that I like, and (1.2) Facebook, to find things that I don't know about?

That's scary for companies counting on the status quo. Sites' share of user time is important not for how they are now, but how things might become in the future. It's a huge about of leverage.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by veverkap on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:20PM (#3979210)
Dave's party was awesome.

:)

This is very true. I only go to Facebook to use Facebook.

Re:GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account by ericax on Tuesday May 15, 2012 @06:16PM (#3979199)
So true. Facebook ads and Google Ads are essentially different.