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Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by Aurornis on Sunday February 25, 2024 @06:28PM (#39506044)
I’m really fascinated with the way journalists are trying to turn the most basic supply and demand situation into “fighting back”.

> In grocery stores, they’re shifting away from name brands to store-brand items, switching to discount stores or simply buying fewer items like snacks or gourmet foods.

Like everything must be a war between two sides. It can’t simply be the most basic economic concept at work.

On the other hand, I’m equally surprised at how few people seem to understand supply and demand has influence on prices. I watched as some family members complained loudly about how concert prices were outrageous and unaffordable for the average person like them, then went right on ahead and then bought the tickets they wanted anyway. They didn’t understand that people’s willingness to pay uncomfortably high prices was the entire reason tickets were so expensive.

I watched the same thing happen at the grocery store earlier where a couple picked up a package of steaks, lamented that it was going to cost them X hours of work, and then threw them in the basket anyway. It’s like large parts of the population are on purchasing autopilot and the price barely matters.

I think it speaks volumes to how high our standard of living has been if we think that it’s newsworthy that some people are switching to store-brand foods or buying fewer gourmet food items (quoted from the article above). Of course, the people suffering the most are the ones who have had to buy store brand foods and avoid gourmet luxuries long before inflation kicked in.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by brayhite on Sunday February 25, 2024 @08:21PM (#39506702)
> I’m equally surprised at how few people seem to understand supply and demand has influence on prices.

Whenever this comes up about athletes and musicians, I say the same thing. I’ve watched friends lament how much money quarterbacks get compared to “heroes” aka police officers, military, firefighters, etc… yet vote against tax increases and buy sports jerseys.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by duxup on Sunday February 25, 2024 @06:32PM (#39506072)
I generally agree with your statement, but I'll add that "Like everything must be a war between two sides." people seem to love that concept too. If they're not identifying with what they buy, it's with what they don't buy and so on.

It's a bummer because I want to know about what people enjoy, like, not what they hate or dislike. So often it is the latter. I somewhat blame social media as outrage and anger gets more engagement than anything else it seems and folks seem conditioned to express that more often than something ... nicer.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by Lammy on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:46PM (#39506532)
A lot of people probably don't even realize they're doing it. This stuff is drilled into our heads from the time of our very earliest memories. Red versus blue, the farthest two things can be apart from each other while still being the same sense to us (visible light).

When you're a kid it's blue toy aisle versus pink toy aisle. SEGA (blue logo / mascot) — or I guess Playstation these days — versus Nintendo (red logo / mascot). Coke versus Pepsi.

As we reach adulthood we're primed for duality in a way that makes us think we must choose one way or the other when presented some choice we didn't even ask for. Do I shop at Walmart, or Target? Do I vote Democrat, or Republican? Do I watch CNN, or Fox? Do I use iPhone, or Android? Do I take the Blue Pill, or the Red Pill? By the time one has been coerced into the decision they've already lost. The only winning move is not to play :)

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by ttt11199907 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:19PM (#39506995)
Well said, thank you.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by rokkitmensch on Sunday February 25, 2024 @11:13PM (#39507597)
"Binary crisis".
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by nebula8804 on Monday February 26, 2024 @01:51AM (#39508279)
The numbers vary between elections and polling organizations (why I dont know) but it seems like ~40-50% of people do not vote so that means that people following your line of thinking are more numerous than you may think. ;)

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States...

The reason I say numbers vary is because the chart at the top of this article paints a different story (that more than 50% do not vote)

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by AviationAtom on Sunday February 25, 2024 @08:15PM (#39506671)
Life hack: go to the box office to buy your tickets. Now suddenly they're half off.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday February 25, 2024 @08:53PM (#39506864)
If only. Climate pledge arena (Seattle), for example, will only sell tickets with all the Ticketmaster fees at their own in person box office, which has to be collusion, but basically the add on fees (many of which are kicked back to event organizers as simply a stealth ticket price increase) can’t be avoided.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by andersa on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:22PM (#39506418)
> On the other hand, I’m equally surprised at how few people seem to understand supply and demand has influence on prices. I watched as some family members complained loudly about how concert prices were outrageous and unaffordable for the average person like them, then went right on ahead and then bought the tickets they wanted anyway. They didn’t understand that people’s willingness to pay uncomfortably high prices was the entire reason tickets were so expensive.

It sounds like the alternative you propose would involve... not having a ticket? That is clearly not an acceptable outcome if I want to go to the concert.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by sahila on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:27PM (#39506443)
Why isn’t it acceptable? It’s the same way I want to own a yacht and a private jet but it’s too expensive so I accept that I can’t afford it.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by ryandrake on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:41PM (#39506501)
LOL@ the visual. “Ugh, these private jets are so expensive these days!” as he buys a King Air.

A lot of people just don't get it: Tickets for major sporting events and concerts are luxuries for the rich, exactly like private jets. They are supposed to be unaffordable. I don’t know where this idea came from that a middle class family is supposed to just be able to afford live Taylor Swift tickets. This isn’t 1970.

If artists price them below what they are worth, they are going to sell out to (mostly) scalpers in 200 milliseconds. If they price them at what they're worth, people grumble and complain about how expensive they have gotten, but that doesn't stop people from buying them, so there is no downward pressure on the price.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by fuzzfactor on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:25PM (#39507020)
>If they price them at what they're worth, people grumble and complain about how expensive they have gotten, but that doesn't stop people from buying them,

So by now they're pricing them way more than they are worth, and people are buying it regardless, so there's still further upside :\

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by sahila on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:41PM (#39507112)
How much are they worth? They're worth as much as someone is willing to buy one.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by SR2Z on Monday February 26, 2024 @09:49AM (#39511836)
They're still pricing them below what they're worth, as evidenced by just how many tickets I've bought from scalpers at a markup.

I want concert tickets to cost more; I hate scalpers more than I hate the rich.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by fuzzfactor on Monday February 26, 2024 @07:38AM (#39510582)
>This isn’t 1970.

Yeah, I remember when Led Zeppelin first came to my town.

All the way from England.

It wasn't 1970 yet either.

That was two dollars well spent.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by nkrisc on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:32PM (#39506464)
You don’t have to go to a concert. No one needs to go to a concert. You go if you can afford it, and you don’t go if you can’t.

Or find a free concert to go to. There’s always free music performances to be found if you know where to look.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by throwaway22032 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:56PM (#39506574)
The maths is pretty simple, though.

Someone like Taylor Swift has hundreds of millions of fans. There are what, maybe 50-100 tour dates a year.

The venue doesn't have a million seats.

Most of the fans aren't going, then.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by novok on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:32PM (#39506461)
Humans love drama. The news is mostly an entertainment medium. When your on the other side, talk about something with nuance and suck the drama out of it, you see that nobody really cares to read it compared to the dramatically colored version. Which means less ad revenue and thus less money. It's the same supply & demand you are talking about here.

I've seen it when I've written tweets, write it dramatically, engagement everywhere, write it with nuance, nobody engages.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by HumblyTossed on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:23PM (#39506424)
This is why we are so divided as a nation. Politicians corporations have been attacking consumers and citizens since the Powell Memo. We have no true fourth estate.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by nebula8804 on Monday February 26, 2024 @01:56AM (#39508303)
We technically do, but its behind a Substack/Youtube premium paywall. Its individual reporters going out and reporting on stories but needing people to cover their costs. Only people who can afford to support them do so and in a way they are paying for that journalism so they can have it.

I suspect this is coming for many thing that AI will automate. In the future rich people will have human performers performing for them only while everyone else has to make do with AI generated slop.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by FireBeyond on Monday February 26, 2024 @02:54PM (#39516061)
So true. Disclaimer, I haven't lived there full time since 2006, but back then one of my points of pride about living in Australia was the idea that you could go to the pub with people of opposite political/social persuasions and have a positive/light/good natured talk, debate, argument about them with such things over some beers.

Here in the US, now though? There are huge swathes of people who will say, with all seriousness, "I'd rather be dead than be friends with a liberal/etc." It's so polarized. Not just teasing/smart ass as outright abusive labeling.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by briHass on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:11PM (#39506351)
See also many of the discussions about housing costs, on HN and elsewhere. Yes, housing is expensive, but somebody keeps paying those prices. Boogymen like private equity and landlords are often blamed, but looking at the data shows most houses are still bought by owner-occupiers.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by bombcar on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:09PM (#39506945)
It’s quite rare to meet someone who wishes they paid more for their current house, or that it was now worth less.

People do notice changes, however, even if they don’t contextualize them correctly all the time.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by paulryanrogers on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:37PM (#39507080)
The percentage of owners is trending downward. Homelessness and renting are tending upwards.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by briHass on Sunday February 25, 2024 @10:19PM (#39507307)
The homeownership rate has been remarkably stable at around 65% for the last 50 years. It generally stays within 2-3% of that number, even though it does have periodic, temporary upward and downward trends.

I wouldn't call it an actual trend unless it falls outside the typical range and stays there for more than a few years.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by nebula8804 on Monday February 26, 2024 @02:06AM (#39508353)
Can we measure % of homes transferred from parents to children? I know several millennials who inherited their houses from their parents when they passed away. There is no way they would be home owners otherwise.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by yieldcrv on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:32PM (#39506460)
> They didn’t understand that people’s willingness to pay uncomfortably high prices was the entire reason tickets were so expensive.

this is something I found weird about how inflation was politicized.

One group said “its corporations being greedy, exclusively!” another group said “its the stimulus money in everyone’s hands, exclusively!”, centrists would say “supply chain disruptions!”

but…. capital misallocations are expected in any economic school of thinking? this means all of those politicized scapegoats are expected factors?

the part nobody wants to hear is that if you still begrudgingly bought overpriced necessities instead of starving to death in the street, then yes, you contributed to inflation. congratulations.

if corporations raised their prices and profits stayed the same, that would be the most equalized outcome.

if profits went down then there would be a case for attempting greed and failing, and if it was for withholding a necessity that would be a real case worth scrutiny!

but since they raised prices and profits went up, despite that combination being what really pissed people off the most, it means that the buyers … had more money… from… somewhere. hmmm….

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by ttt11199907 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:23PM (#39507012)
Or used money they had saved. Or would otherwise save...
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by yieldcrv on Monday February 26, 2024 @12:53AM (#39508043)
Yes that, or traded up in their brokerage account, or didnt pay rent with, or didnt pay their student loans for 3 years with, or collected unemployment + amped up state benefit for a year plus while not paying those other things

But about those savings: nothing about our economy is about rewarding savers, every single aspect of monetary and fiscal policy is to promote transactions in the economy

If not to another person for consumptive reasons, they want savings to go into assets

If you want to save in its currency the governments will tax you the most, up to 55% if you’re self employed anywhere Americans have a 1/3rd chance of living

If you do what the government is pointing at with big blaring neon signs, you’ll often get taxed 0% and be paid a tax rebate for doing do.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by lotsofpulp on Monday February 26, 2024 @05:53AM (#39509803)
>But about those savings: nothing about our economy is about rewarding savers, every single aspect of monetary and fiscal policy is to promote transactions in the economy

Because saving is not stuffing money under a mattress, it is investing it for a presumed return. And many major voting blocks benefit by hitting the presumed returns, which happens by promoting transactions.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by nebula8804 on Monday February 26, 2024 @02:07AM (#39508365)
Or used money they didn't have (ie. Credit cards)
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by FireBeyond on Monday February 26, 2024 @02:57PM (#39516084)
> another group said “its the stimulus money in everyone’s hands, exclusively!”

I mean even as recently as last month you have politicians on the right saying that people are even now "hoarding" stimulus checks, or are still living large on them.

$3,600. In 2020. That's a generous definition of hoarding. And an extremely generous definition of "living large".

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by yieldcrv on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @01:22AM (#39520742)
the checks from the Presidents weren't the only program

the PPP loans along side amplified unemployment benefits were far longer running

in California, Covid unemployment was $450/week with an additional $600/week on top, and it lasted 18 months statewide

the reality isn't as political as it masquerades as, there are and were capital misallocations as a result of these broad programs

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by Simulacra on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:07PM (#39506321)
Sometimes you have to get really creative to generate those clicks. That's what it's all about. Journalism is a faint echo of what it once was.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by selcuka on Sunday February 25, 2024 @06:48PM (#39506188)
> I watched the same thing happen at the grocery store earlier where a couple picked up a package of steaks, lamented that it was going to cost them X hours of work, and then threw them in the basket anyway.

What are they supposed to do? Meat is generally considered an inelastic good [1] unlike your concert example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by mertd on Sunday February 25, 2024 @06:52PM (#39506215)
Meat is maybe non negotiable for some folks but surely steak can be subbed with a cheaper cut, different animal etc...

Also let's not judge the shoppers in the original comment. Maybe they wanted it for a special occasion which made it less optional.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by knightofmars on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:37PM (#39506479)
Preface, I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. I also hunt and have killed and butchered animals for meat.

That people consider meat an inelastic good shows a cultural and commercial brainwashing. The idea that an individual or family could go without meat is practically heresy in the United States. Frankly, it's ridiculous and shows a fundamental lack of imagination and willingness to accept that reality doesn't guarantee anyone's ability to acquire cheap hamburger, chicken breasts, bacon, or any other meat.

Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by kelipso on Sunday February 25, 2024 @08:30PM (#39506744)
Reality has done exactly that for decades in the US. What's so weird about people complaining that this is not continuing.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by FooBarBizBazz on Monday February 26, 2024 @11:33AM (#39513290)
This is the long-form version of "eat ze bugs".
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by allturtles on Sunday February 25, 2024 @06:52PM (#39506213)
Eat chicken. Or ground beef. Or pork chops. Or any of the other meats that are cheaper than steak.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by bombcar on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:13PM (#39506959)
And lots of people do substitute; but the reality is that even steak is a small portion of most people’s expenses.
Re:Consumers are increasingly pushing back against price inc... by bonton89 on Monday February 26, 2024 @10:39AM (#39512514)
> I watched the same thing happen at the grocery store earlier where a couple picked up a package of steaks, lamented that it was going to cost them X hours of work, and then threw them in the basket anyway. It’s like large parts of the population are on purchasing autopilot and the price barely matters.

I used to think the shopping mall full of zombies in Dawn of the Dead was just a hamfisted critique of consumerism. But after all the complaining and not much doing I see Americans doing I think if you reanimated our corpses they would mostly go right back to shopping in a literal sense.