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Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Sunday January 21, 2024 @07:34PM (#39084631)
$169 is a bit steep for me, so I went on Temu and bought a $8 125KHz RFID programmer & a $5 USB-C IR Blaster. Combined with my Samsung phones native NFC writing, bluetooth, etc I feel like it scratched the itch of 90% of what people do with Flipper for 10% the cost.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by moolcool on Sunday January 21, 2024 @07:58PM (#39084796)
The M5Stack Cardputer seems like it would scratch the same itch as the Flipper Zero.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by s17n on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:16PM (#39084923)
the whole point of the flipper is the sub-1ghz radio and nfc/rfid capabilities. It's not really intended to be used as a general purpose computer, it's more like a really extensible radio
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by lolinder on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:38PM (#39085040)
Yeah, but for me (and I imagine a lot of people on here) the itch that Flipper Zero teases is that of a hackable computer in a neat form factor, not the specific radio capabilities that it's actually meant for.

I didn't know about M5 before and now I'm hooked exploring M5's store, so I appreciate OP's pointing me there!

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by s17n on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:28PM (#39085397)
I think there are a lot of better options if that's what you want. From what I've seen the appeal of the Flipper is that you can do a bunch of fun stuff with a super easy to use interface (just select the thing you want to do and press go!) It's like the iPod of radio/rfid hacking.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by lolinder on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:31PM (#39085423)
Yeah, for sure—I looked at the Flipper when it first came out and decided it was overkill for me.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by grishka on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:11PM (#39085262)
Also the 1-wire/iButton capabilities. Systems that use this kind of keys are probably nonexistent in the US, but in some other countries, they're everywhere.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by ramraj07 on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:04PM (#39084845)
“1200 seems too high for a phone, so I bought a raspberry Pi and attached a 4G module now I can make calls and browse the internet”…
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:15PM (#39084918)
iPhones aren't sitting unused in a drawer forgotten like 99% of Flippers. There's nothing differentiating or polished about clicking one button versus clicking a different button to clone an RFID tag. I'd rather have cheapo version of 1 time use gizmos.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by j0hnyl on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:30PM (#39085870)
Is this really the case? I would think there would be a mobile app interface for flipper?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by filoleg on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:57PM (#39086395)
You are correct, there is a mobile app interface for it.

You can check firmware version and device status, update it, have access to file manager, can backup keys, read logs, reboot, speed/stress test, and probably do a lot of other things that I am not aware about.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by elliottcarlson on Monday January 22, 2024 @04:55AM (#39087912)
Any app run on the Flipper Zero can be run and interfaced with from the mobile app. It works quite well.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by cruffle_duffle on Monday January 22, 2024 @11:17AM (#39091193)
> I would think there would be a mobile app interface for flipper?

If you want to interact with the software on flipper zero you have to use the "remote" app (or whatever) on the phone. It kinda sucks though because it literally acts just like the physical device. If you wanna type a filename out and think having a full keyboard like on your phone would make that task easier... it doesn't. You are stuck using the fake "buttons" to move the cursor around to each letter just like you would on the device itself.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by ramraj07 on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:23PM (#39086161)
For me the appeal of Flipper Zero is the mythical rare day when it becomes useful in an emergency, and until then it can stay in my draw peacefully.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by rvnx on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:38PM (#39086252)
There is another possibility: that the Flipper gets an update with the order of a government. For example, to reprogram or shutdown electrical systems in the house. And then it will be a day to remember :D
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by stavros on Monday January 22, 2024 @01:00AM (#39086798)
Or, an equally plausible scenario, it grows its own consciousness and decide to attack, hiding behind its delightful dolphin facade.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by a2800276 on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:35AM (#39087252)
Oh, come on, you're being ridiculous. It's much more plausible for the flipper to develop consciousness and steal all the tuna in your pantry.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by Gabrys1 on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:14AM (#39087134)
More likely your smart home app in your phone will do that
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by camillomiller on Monday January 22, 2024 @12:59AM (#39086788)
Design is way more important than just what things look like. But it contributes to a product's success in ways that are sometimes hard to measure. That's why engineer-driven company don't understand it and engineers (as a sweeping generalization) usually hate it.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by thelastparadise on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:08PM (#39084872)
> “1200 seems too high for a phone, so I bought a raspberry Pi and attached a 4G module now I can make calls and browse the internet”…

That actually sounds really cool...

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by ThePowerOfFuet on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:58PM (#39085180)
Until you want to take it with you when you leave the house.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by Grimblewald on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:09PM (#39085252)
Battery? A pi zero phone is a thing that works
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by throwaway2037 on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:01AM (#39087068)
I had no idea. Google tells me there is a sub-Reddit for it!

r/ZeroPhone: ZeroPhone - a Raspberry Pi smartphone

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by Krustopolis on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:30AM (#39087231)
Leave the house?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by jauntywundrkind on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:21PM (#39085336)
I would love love love this to become a vibe.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by hattmall on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:28PM (#39085851)
Or just one of the hundreds of equally capable reasonably priced phones.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by spookie on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:39PM (#39085052)
The point of the flipper zero is to have one good supported gadget that has a lot of people hacking away with it.

It's the same thing with the raspberry pi, sure you can get some cheap clone off less than ideal places, but you're gonna pay with your time. That's basically it.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by jefftk on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:22PM (#39085815)
> It's the same thing with the raspberry pi, sure you can get some cheap clone...

It's a little different: from when the rPI first came out the price was a big driver of it's popularity. It started with the Model B at $35 (with the Model A at $25 "later this year") and this was so much cheaper than other options at the time. Look over threads from the time [1][2] and you'll see things like: "I teach middle school programming/computer classes. I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these. Right now it's cheap enough that I can tell the parents to buy one for their kids without a problem, and out of pocket it for those few of my students whose parents won't be able to afford it." and "The pricepoint is simply revoultionary. I intend to make a few amateur home automation gadgets with this."

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2974292

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3448677

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by regularfry on Monday January 22, 2024 @05:15AM (#39088003)
Allowing for inflation they've stayed in roughly the same ballpark, price-wise. It's just that there are now also cheaper boards available, which used not to be the case.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by Scoundreller on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:47PM (#39085117)
That's what I like about InstantPots: having a standardized cooking device makes recipes a lot easier to share.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by nonethewiser on Sunday January 21, 2024 @09:25PM (#39085372)
Well sure, for pressure and slow cooking. You could say the same thing about the microwave.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by dartos on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:22PM (#39085818)
Could you?

Two different models microwaves cook pretty differently from each other. Especially if they have differing wattage.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by 8organicbits on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:30AM (#39087228)
Another is that a microwave doesn't operate at a set pressure, so even the same model will behave differently at different evelations.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by TeMPOraL on Monday January 22, 2024 @05:48AM (#39088133)
That's true of pretty much all cooking (and baking) except when using a pressure cooker, so it's kind of a given - people learn to cook given their local pressure and humidity levels.

But then again, cooking is poor man's process engineering - what you do when you don't particularly care about quality and consistency, or at least don't have access to hardware and methods to ensure them.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by dartos on Monday January 22, 2024 @08:16AM (#39089168)
Yeah so the instant pot is an exceptionally good kitchen tool for sharing recipes with others in a reproducible way.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by thot_experiment on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:22PM (#39085808)
My partner's instant pot also does toasting/air frying/normal cooking, I've been very impressed with it.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by phone8675309 on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:24PM (#39086169)
For anyone with a compatible model you can add this with a lid accessory from Instant Pot: https://instantpot.com/portfolio-item/air-fryer-lid/
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by nathancahill on Monday January 22, 2024 @06:18AM (#39088300)
Bought this to see what the hype was about. Hardly use it any more, the Instant Pot is just too small to be useful for air frying. 90% of the things come out better in the oven in convection mode.

Biggest level up was just lightly dusting anything with a starch or flour (lentil flour is awesome) and then a few light sprays of olive oil.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by tycho-newman on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:15PM (#39085761)
Chef Mike is the hardest working chef in the kitchen!
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by omnimus on Monday January 22, 2024 @05:17AM (#39088009)
Arent most things in a kitchen standardized cooking device? Like stainless pan is stainless pan…
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by internet101010 on Monday January 22, 2024 @10:27AM (#39090450)
Kind of. But turning a stove up to medium-high and reducing to a simmer can lead to different outcomes depending on how the stove is calibrated and someone's interpretation of "simmer".
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by tkems on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:39PM (#39085054)
If you want to go deeper with RFID and can spend a bit more (~$50), I am pretty happy with my knockoff Proxmark3 Easy [0] I got on ebay. (Do some research to find a good seller as I have heard some sellers ship bad units). It can do both 125khz and 13.25Mhz RFID/NFC and is easier to use then some of the Android apps for cracking Mifare keys.

For the price, it is great for more complex attacks and almost has all the features of a full Proxmark RDV4 (minus BLE and a battery).

[0] https://proxmark.com/proxmark-3-hardware/proxmark-3-easy

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by stavros on Monday January 22, 2024 @12:58AM (#39086780)
Do you have any resources for learning about RFID? I have some tokens for opening my garage door that I'd like to clone, and I'd like to know how they work.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by tkems on Monday January 22, 2024 @01:29AM (#39086932)
I would check out the Proxmark3 Github repo [0]. They have a cheatsheet [1] with the basics on how to get started. I also did a talk about RFID security last year about the basics [2]

To get started, the basics are: low freq (LF) is usually around 125khz and is rarely encrypted (HID Prox is the most common in the US). The data is often encoded in Wiegand format for access control systems (something to keep in mind when reading the raw data).

High freq (HF) (aka NFC) is ~13Mhz and is readable by most Android phones with NFC. Not all tag data can be read however. HF cards support a lot of different options including data storage (normally in a block layout with permissions to read and write depending on keys) and encryption (iCLASS and SEOS being the HID offerings and very common). Some can be cloned (like hotel cards) while others (like SEOS) require a downgrade attack to work correctly (SEOS -> normal SEOS reader -> Weigand data -> older style card like HID Prox).

[0] https://github.com/RfidResearchGroup/proxmark3

[1] https://github.com/RfidResearchGroup/proxmark3/blob/master/d...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOAywZqisc

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by stavros on Monday January 22, 2024 @01:31AM (#39086941)
Thanks! I've just bought a Proxmark clone, so this will be very useful.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by SV_BubbleTime on Sunday January 21, 2024 @10:41PM (#39085921)
So instead of supporting the community and a project with a specific goal, your point is that you bought a Chinese knockoff of a different product?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by mightyham on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:24PM (#39086165)
Yes, gp seems to be pointing out the flippers' largest use cases can be satisfied by significantly cheaper products. They also aren't necessarily "Chinese knockoffs". It just so happens that they bought them from a Chinese online retailer, and I don't see how they could even be called knockoffs because what gp described are fairly different products from flipper.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by NavinF on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:36PM (#39086248)
RFID programmers and USB-C IR Blasters are commodities. How could they possibly be knockoffs?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by michaelteter on Sunday January 21, 2024 @11:29PM (#39086208)
> I went on Temu and bought

Too bad. I was sincerely hoping nobody would buy anything from them so they would die.

Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by camillomiller on Monday January 22, 2024 @12:57AM (#39086776)
I was thinking the same. It's a proven predatory and reckless company that can sell at these prices because of shady practices. But hey, savings!
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by kvdveer on Monday January 22, 2024 @01:07AM (#39086833)
I'm not ver familiar with Temu. Are these shady practices documented somewhere, and are they worse than industry peers (aliexpress, wish, overseas ebay, etc)?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by fomine3 on Monday January 22, 2024 @03:20AM (#39087478)
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Monday January 22, 2024 @12:17PM (#39092130)
I don't install apps when there is a website I can use from my desktop. So, I guess I have a green light to enjoy Temu.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by fomine3 on Monday January 22, 2024 @07:03PM (#39097391)
Do you trust a company that literally hacked customers' device?
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Monday January 22, 2024 @08:32PM (#39098308)
To mail me packages of cheap Chinese goods? Yes.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by SushiHippie on Monday January 22, 2024 @03:13AM (#39087433)
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Monday January 22, 2024 @12:15PM (#39092090)
Amazon costs twice as much, and Aliexpress takes twice as long to ship. I have an adblocker installed, so I haven't experienced the annoying ads people are mentioning. I don't install apps when a website is available, so it's not a a spyware concern. If Temu is more evil that the other main two options, I have yet to see an explanation.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by dzhiurgis on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @09:41PM (#39112965)
AliExpress gotten so expensive too, Temu seems far cheaper (tho lacking lots of more interesting items)
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by 1oooqooq on Monday January 22, 2024 @01:07AM (#39086831)
no phone can act as a nfc card. your set up doesn't cover the main use case for the flipper on nfc space
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by baobun on Monday January 22, 2024 @02:19AM (#39087165)
Many (most recent) smartphone models can act as NFC cards very well, with the right software.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by guitarlimeo on Monday January 22, 2024 @03:17AM (#39087454)
Phones unfortunately disallow setting the NFC UID on the hardware level (it's random each time), Flipper allows you to do anything.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by 1oooqooq on Monday January 22, 2024 @05:24AM (#39088034)
That is kinda misleading. They can act as a very limited version of a client of a very specific and largely unused spec.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by geor9e on Monday January 22, 2024 @04:27AM (#39087781)
Sure but I have dozens of blank cards and stickers I bought for a few dollars.
Re:Flipper Zero: Multi-Tool Device for Geeks by tauntz on Monday January 22, 2024 @03:24AM (#39087502)
> so I went on Temu and bought a $8 125KHz RFID programmer

OT but if you found it for $8 on Temu, then you can most likely find the exact same device on Aliexpress for $1 - $2. Don't feed Temu - their ads are clogging up my feeds :)