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Re:Power over fiber by ExoticPearTree on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:13AM (#38866045)
You know, in some places there are warning signs that read: Do not look into laser with remaining eye (https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1482f39eeb7fe2a2abc36...).

Anyway, common sense says you don't look with your unprotected eye through a fiber endpoint.

Re:Power over fiber by willis936 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:33AM (#38866196)
What does looking at a laser have to do with being safe from a class 4 laser? You could be two rooms over and be blinded by it if there are specular surfaces (which there usually are).
Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:18AM (#38867259)
You probably still shouldn't look into the laser with your remaining eye, though.
Re:Power over fiber by xxs on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:49AM (#38866359)
You dont have to look at the laser at all, scattered beam can be dangerous as well. Note: class 4 lasers have no upper bound, they are just hazardous.
Re:Power over fiber by jahnu on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:16AM (#38868772)
Have these ever been weaponised?
Re:Power over fiber by solardev on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:31PM (#38869788)
Experimentally, sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_weapon?wprov=sfla1

Big pewpews require big power and it's not super practical yet

Re:Power over fiber by FuriouslyAdrift on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:28PM (#38872504)
Re:Power over fiber by solardev on Thursday January 04, 2024 @08:04PM (#38874422)
Wikipedia says that one is just one unit on one ship (moved to another ship). Has it seen more widespread production since then?

The end of the article mentions another system, HELIOS, but didn't have much more information, and that was only two units, I think?

I believe you, just wondering how widespread these are relative to traditional projectile weapons.

Re:Power over fiber by FuriouslyAdrift on Friday January 05, 2024 @03:43PM (#38884646)
I think they are still in the testing phase but they are being deployed. The Marines do this all the time with all kinds of tech.

I've read that the main reason they like it is more about the incredible long range optics and not the laser, tbh.

Re:Power over fiber by xxs on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:21PM (#38869669)
They are called direct energy weapons, more like a sci-fi, though.

It'd be a rather short range weapon, that's not easy to aim, require a line-of-sight, can't penetrate armor... or goggles, or fog/dust.

Re:Power over fiber by adrianN on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:14PM (#38870312)
I’m pretty sure high powered lasers penetrate goggles by just vaporizing them.
Re:Power over fiber by xxs on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:36PM (#38870576)
True but how would you deploy high powered ones and keep line of sight?
Re:Power over fiber by paradox460 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:12PM (#38871641)
Use an X-Ray laser, as Larry Niven liked to use as a MacGuffin in a few of his stories
Re:Power over fiber by cyberax on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:56AM (#38869324)
It's against the Geneva Convention to use blinding weapons.
Re:Power over fiber by Snow_Falls on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:14PM (#38869575)
Has the Geneva convention ever stopped anyone? They can only arrest you if you lose the war, and people don't tend to plan for that.
Re:Power over fiber by solardev on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:33PM (#38869815)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzler_%28weapon%29?wprov=sfl...

They're "intended" to cause only temporary blindness

Re:Power over fiber by xxs on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:29PM (#38869773)
The application would be more civil than war-alike, if it existed.
Re:Power over fiber by Snow_Falls on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:52PM (#38870065)
That's even harder to prosecute, pretty much no one is starting a war over what rulers are doing to their own citizens.
Re:Power over fiber by xxs on Thursday January 04, 2024 @08:51PM (#38874770)
Still need a major supplier both the laser emitters and esp. the optics. The weapons will be a lot more expensive compared to conventional weapons, or any anti-riot weaponry.

Aside the sci-fi vibe, I could imagine James Bond esque - still quite hard to use, has to aim for the eyes, scatter can cause collateral damage, doesn't work in fog, rain, etc.

Re:Power over fiber by cyberax on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:56PM (#38870816)
It has. That's why countries don't have real chemical weapons anymore. They are easy to make (for an industrialized country), but they don't provide any real advantage when both sides in a war have access to them. They just increase misery for everyone involved.

Blinding laser weapons are in the same category.

Re:Power over fiber by Snow_Falls on Thursday January 04, 2024 @05:20PM (#38873102)
That's not really the Geneva convention though, chemicals weapons are just not effective for any actual warfare (aside from committing atrocities).
Re:Power over fiber by Grimblewald on Thursday January 04, 2024 @06:28PM (#38873704)
I'm sorry but that is totally incorrect. Being able to clear out a building without damaging its capacity to provide cover is enormously useful.

Chemical weapons are incredibly useful, just awful.

Re:Power over fiber by nand4011 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:28PM (#38874151)
The argument I've seen against their usefulness is that they only work against static militaries that don't have NBC training, and a modern military can already defeat threats like that without paying the political cost of using them.

https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-ch...

Re:Power over fiber by cyberax on Friday January 05, 2024 @09:08PM (#38887650)
> Chemical weapons are incredibly useful

They're not. They're effective against an unprepared adversary. Any real military will have anti-chemical-weapons tactics and protection.

So this happens: you douse a building with a gas, and then walk inside and get shot by defenders in gas masks. And by the way, you also will have to wear a gas mask yourself.

Re:Power over fiber by chipsa on Friday January 05, 2024 @12:10AM (#38875930)
General rule of thumb: if it's been banned, it's useless for the signatories. Ex: chemical weapons, but also biological weapons, land mines, and cluster munitions. Note that land mines and cluster munitions are still actively being used, especially in Ukraine, and the countries that signed onto the ban largely got rid of those systems well before the ban was signed.
Re:Power over fiber by robertlagrant on Thursday January 04, 2024 @03:11PM (#38871640)
Sadly it's not against it to use killing weapons.
Re:Power over fiber by jnwatson on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:18PM (#38870377)
You betcha. I remember in the late 90s an anti sniper technology that could detect lenses at long distances and fire a laser at them.

The idea was to mess up scope optics, but human heads have lenses too. It was not Geneva Conventions friendly.

Re:Power over fiber by andruby on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:42PM (#38871299)
I’d love to read more about this. Especially the part about the Geneva Convention.
Re:Power over fiber by cromulent on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:22PM (#38872443)
I’m guessing it was the Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_on_Blinding_Laser_W...

Re:Power over fiber by jahnu on Friday January 05, 2024 @11:10AM (#38880616)
Wow that’s pretty amazing. Wonder why I’ve never seen it in a film or tv show.
Re:Power over fiber by xtiansimon on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:43AM (#38866295)
“Common sense”?

Never had one of those toys…

https://images.app.goo.gl/nFwVrEe26vkxxJWLA

Re:Power over fiber by onionisafruit on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:22AM (#38866100)
What does that mean? I read it as people who have already lost an eye shouldn’t risk their only remaining eye, but I think I’m missing something.
Re:Power over fiber by tgsovlerkhgsel on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:59AM (#38866457)
It's tongue-in-cheek, implying that many people working with the stuff already lost an eye to it.

It's part joke and part telling people "hey, this stuff is really dangerous, take it seriously or you'll lose an eye, or both". I don't think I've seen a single lab with high-powered lasers that didn't have a variant of this sign.

A similar popular sign for chemical labs is "Carol Never Wore Her Safety Goggles. Now She Doesn't Need Them", depicting a blind woman with sunglasses and a white cane. (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/carols-safety-goggles)

Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:41AM (#38867541)
I didn't know labs hang up such brutal memes. I am curious, though, why they made Carol a girl. No way chemical labs have a gender balance that, alone, would justify that decision. Never has portraying more women in STEM made me laugh this hard.
Re:Power over fiber by NickM on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:49AM (#38867644)
I am curious, though, why they made Carol a girl.

I guess depending on your political agenda they were either trying to be inclusive and promoting gender diversity in STEM, or they were being subtly misogynistic by implying that women aren't as careful as men.

Or maybe it was just arbitrary and maybe we don't have to read anything into it? But what do I know.

Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:53AM (#38867698)
> I guess depending on your political agenda they were either trying to be inclusive and promoting gender diversity in STEM, or they were being subtly misogynistic by implying that women aren't as careful as men.

Nah, I actually believe it's the first one. That's why it's so hilarious. The irony is what it insinuates about what happens to women in STEM.

Re:Power over fiber by sjsdaiuasgdia on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:34AM (#38868190)
Alternate idea: they weren't thinking about gender at all. Maybe that was the first hit for "blind person clipart" and they just went with the perceived gender of the person in the image.
Re:Power over fiber by ExoticPearTree on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:35AM (#38868203)
@jakderrida - it doesn't really matter what Carol's gender is, it is about the message. And on that note, you added zero value to the conversation.
Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:53PM (#38870089)
If it didn't matter, snowflakes like you wouldn't feel compelled to reply. All I did was mention it was humorous. If cringe were currency, then maybe your comment has value.
Re:Power over fiber by BobaFloutist on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:40AM (#38868280)
IIRC it came from a (mixed gender) series, and the one with Carol was just the one that people found funny enough that it stuck.
Re:Power over fiber by fullspectrumdev on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:18AM (#38867978)
The vast majority of the lab techs at both unis I attended were women.

Women outnumbered men in my chemistry course.

Re:Power over fiber by ta988 on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:58AM (#38867751)
Depends on the domain. Biology labs are often composed of more women than men. Chemistry tend to be the opposite.

And they both use substances that would destroy your eyes.

Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:07AM (#38867858)
It's the irony that I find hilarious. I imagine them saying, "We should make it a woman to portray more women in STEM" while completely neglecting that she's a cautionary tale.
Re:Power over fiber by bipson on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:48AM (#38867638)
Inclusion goes both ways?

On a serious note: What are you on about?

Re:Power over fiber by jakderrida on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:00AM (#38867789)
> Inclusion goes both ways?

Yes, I agree. That's why making it a girl is so hilarious. As to why you're so offended that I find it hilarious, I honestly don't know what to tell you. It's funny for the same reason I'll refer to a hypothetical serial killer as "him" and follow by saying "or her, of course" to females as if I'm pandering. The joke is that they weren't offended to be excluded from being serial killers.

Re:Power over fiber by bipson on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:22AM (#38868835)
It's not hilarious.

And I'm not offended. I just have zero idea what your issue is. I never gave it any second thought what gender the person is. I don't care and I wonder what you're reading into it.

Re:Power over fiber by afandian on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:30AM (#38866168)
I think part of the joke is that damage is instantaneous so if you’re not prepared you can’t take evasive action.
Re:Power over fiber by I_Am_Nous on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:23AM (#38867318)
On top of this, we can't see 800 nm light. That's well into the Infrared band so "invisible lightsaber for your eyes" is an exaggeration, but helps visualize what you could be dealing with.
Re:Power over fiber by ttoinou on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:23AM (#38866107)
Yeah it's provocatively funny
Re:Power over fiber by onionisafruit on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:29AM (#38866161)
Thanks. I must be awake too early because it didn’t occur to me the sign is a joke.
Re:Power over fiber by thriftwy on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:50AM (#38867655)
The joke being is that's not a joke.
Re:Power over fiber by ttoinou on Thursday January 04, 2024 @08:50PM (#38874755)
It's a quantum joke
Re:Power over fiber by redog on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:02AM (#38867052)
I think that sometimes when humor is added, in this way, it is to make you pause first.

At least in my mind when I encounter something oddly said/written my mind starts suggesting contexts and I can clearly "see" myself going blind by doing me like things.

Re:Power over fiber by marcosdumay on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:41AM (#38867538)
It emphasizes that you will only notice there's something dangerous around after you are already blind.

It's a very well worded warning, that spread because it's effective. The official warning saying that you must take precautions even if you don't see anything wrong just doesn't work well.

Re:Power over fiber by Bluecobra on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:12AM (#38867172)
Most fiber/transceivers you commonly find in a datacenter won’t cause eye damage:

https://www.nanog.org/news-stories/nanog-tv/top-talks/tutori...

(slides 79-84)

Re:Power over fiber by mikewarot on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:35AM (#38867471)
This is definitely not a most common transceiver, which is the point of all the commentary.

I'd refuse to buy this thing unless there was some national security reason for doing so, and then there would have to be interlocks on the room to de-energize it when anyone entered.

Re:Power over fiber by runjake on Thursday January 04, 2024 @11:32AM (#38868967)
Disclaimer: I recommend you don't look at lasers as a standard practice.

For more context, an SFP+ 10G LR 10km module is Class 1 (completely harmless during normal use).

Same with a 100G LR4 type module.

The ZR type modules that run 100+km are also Class 1.

Pretty much any optical module you plug into a router or a switch is Class 1.

Where you should definitely be cautious is:

- Around optical amplifiers, where things can get into Class 2 and 3.

- DWDM setups where each module may be a Class 1, but the sum of their light adds up into something harmful.

Re:Power over fiber by gorlilla on Thursday January 04, 2024 @07:46PM (#38874277)
They are class-1 only because the system is designed to not have any light visible during normal operation. Interlocks can be the only difference between a class-1 and a class-4 laser.
Re:Power over fiber by dpratt on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:14AM (#38867936)
"Danger: Not Only Will This Kill You, It Will Hurt The Whole Time You're Dying"
Re:Power over fiber by AriedK on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:34AM (#38868189)
I find these tremendously helpful https://i.etsystatic.com/13650636/r/il/617182/2062686717/il_... as popularized by AvE