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Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by tracerbulletx on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:07PM (#38784659)
Because the law has never delt with the concept of training models like these before and it's not just automatically the same thing as republishing something non-transformative no matter how much some people want to just assert that it is without actually thinking about it. It's a new case, that probably needs new different types of protections and consideration.
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Retric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:51PM (#38785169)
Algorithms alone don’t qualify as transformative, which is why making an MP3 doesn’t count as a new work.

Copyright is insidious because people tried all sorts of ways to get around it in the past. You can’t for example replace all the words in an article with synonyms and get a completely new work. Thus, asking ChatGPT to summarize an article is problematic because the output is based on the original work irrespective of what’s happening internally.

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by paulddraper on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:45PM (#38785763)
An MP3 is not a significantly different work. 1:1 substitutions of synonyms is not a significantly different work.

Summaries are explicitly permitted, which is why CliffNotes, Wikipedia, etc can publish synopses of copyrighted works.

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Retric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:04PM (#38786004)
Cliff Notes books interpret, analyze, and comment on works which is allowed. Detailed summary alone doesn’t qualify for a fair use exception.

Note how much of the ‘summery’ section isn’t just a listing of what happens but an interpretation of what happens: https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/f/fahrenheit-451/summ...

“At the same time, she also gives the reader the opportunity to see that the government has dramatically changed what its citizens perceive as their history. For example, Montag never knew that firemen used to fight actual fires...”

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by cscurmudgeon on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:54PM (#38785855)
> Thus, asking ChatGPT to summarize an article is problematic because the output is based on the original work irrespective of what’s happening internally.

You are confusing training a model vs using it. This way a web browser can also be said to use NYT's content.

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Retric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:10PM (#38786084)
That’s in support of copyright being insidious not suggesting summaries are the only issue.

The point was people seem to assume only direct copies are problematic but that’s not the case. Training/feature extraction is just as mechanical as making an MP3.

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by oh_sigh on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:21PM (#38784827)
Does the law care about the method(whether it is ML or just reading the article from a database) if the model can spit out a verbatim copy of an article?
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by MeImCounting on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:30PM (#38784937)
I see this argument everywhere and have yet to succeed in getting ChatGPT to give an article. This argument is basically a non-starter
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by klyrs on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:49PM (#38785807)
I've seen many of these "AI" offerings regurgitate their training data verbatim. If chatgpt were miraculously immune to this, despite taking the same basic approach as everybody else, and without significant efforts to prevent regurgitation, then the onus is on them to prove that.
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Retric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:47PM (#38785121)
Researchers have gotten large chunks of verbatim text. Suggesting it’s only infringing if the entire work is reproduced is legally incorrect and therefore irrelevant.

https://mashable.com/article/chatgpt-revealed-personal-data-...

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by paulddraper on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:01PM (#38785947)
> Suggesting it’s only infringing if the entire work is reproduced is legally incorrect

It may not be conclusive, but it's highly suggestive:

> Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely.

> https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/

Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Retric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:18PM (#38786188)
Context is important when reading that, just 7 words can be copyright infringement.
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by oh_sigh on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:14PM (#38785424)
It's not an argument, it is a question. I'd like to know the answer as to whether the method matters to the courts.
Re:'A business model based on mass copyright infringement' by Dalewyn on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:20PM (#38784822)
Copyright laws have dealt with computer programs using bits of code or data that they had no right to incorporate.

Changing the words spoken to sound sophisticated does not change anything.

Obligatory IANAL.