News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Text-to-CAD by dugite-code on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @06:34PM (#38715087)
When ever I see CAD mentioned on hackernews it's always 3D and never the more ubiquitous (in the construction industry) 2D documentation CAD. I wonder if this would be able to generate 2D vector files.
Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @08:15PM (#38715941)
They're one and the same.

We use 3d CAD to generate 2d drawings, that's the standard way 3d cad is used, to generate 2d drawings that let you make stuff.

Many people get 3d modeling like for games or computer graphics confused with CAD, which is different.

CAD is fundamentally 2d and 3d in nature both, as a function of how we use it to make parts

Re:Text-to-CAD by kragen on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @08:24PM (#38715997)
i've definitely used 2-d cad programs that can't handle 3-d, and 3-d cad programs that are at best anemic for making 2-d drawings

they're not one and the same, although some programs are capable enough to do both

Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:08PM (#38716237)
Those sound like terrible CAD programs that aren't terribly usable for real work. I don't know how I'd do my job with them.

Proper modern 3d CAD systems like Solidworks, Catia, Creo (was ProE), Fusion360, Inventory, etc. have super robust 2d drawing and export functionality. If they didn't we couldn't make the built world the way we have.

It's the same for 2d packages like Autocad. You can draw in 3d in Autocad, but it's not solid modeling its just drawing in 3d, totally different. But it works.

Why would you use tools that don't work?

Re:Text-to-CAD by kragen on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:25PM (#38716661)
in some cases, it was because the programs you're naming didn't exist at the time, except for autocad, which didn't have useful 3-d functionality

in other cases, because the 'tools that don't work' from your point of view can do things in minutes that would take hours in those other programs, which i don't have in any case. blender, for example, is terrible at making 2-d dimensioned drawings compared to something like solidworks, but you can model things in blender nobody has ever been able to model in solidworks, and then you can 3-d print them. and, though solidworks can do everything openscad can, there are things that are easy to do in openscad which are a real pain in solidworks. but openscad is also utterly terrible at 2-d drawings

Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:42PM (#38716761)
Thank you.

Blender is definitely the wrong tool for this kind of job. It's a graphics tool, not a CAD tool.

A drafter may use a pen, but that doesn't mean a calligraphy pen will do.

Re:Text-to-CAD by kragen on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:53PM (#38716812)
depends on what you're designing and what kinds of products you need out of your cad program
Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Thursday December 21, 2023 @12:28AM (#38717295)
I'm intrigued, what kind of products do they design in Blender?
Re:Text-to-CAD by kragen on Thursday December 21, 2023 @03:33AM (#38718231)
sorry, by 'products you need out of your cad program' i meant things like prints with dimensions and callouts, or stl files, or gerbers, not the physical artifacts those things are used to produce
Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Thursday December 21, 2023 @04:45AM (#38718640)
Got it.

Same question, what are the products you are referring to?

Re:Text-to-CAD by kragen on Thursday December 21, 2023 @06:35AM (#38719221)
i just answered that in the comment you're replying to, so you have exhausted the presumption of good faith, and this is my last comment in this thread
Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Thursday December 21, 2023 @12:47PM (#38723856)
I'm trying to get at what CAD program outputs you would want that aren't drawings, etc. I'm not aware of any. I'm trying to get at what true application Blender had which you are referencing.

If you don't want a drawing or a manufacturable thing out of your CAD program then its likely not CAD your doing but graphics design or 3d modeling, not design. This is fine, but itsba different thing.

I was trying to parse through that with you...

Re:Text-to-CAD by liotier on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @08:32PM (#38716038)
That a CAD program can only handle 2D doesn't mean that it doesn't describe 3D. Even when plans where physical large format blueprints, 2D, the product they described was of course always 3D. In French, the draughtsman was called a "dessinateur projeteur" - as projecting the 3D objects to a 2D plane (the plan !) was his core skill.
Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:09PM (#38716242)
Exactly, because the end result is a 3d object in the real world that needs to function with its surroundings in 3d space. How we write down that shape to communicate it to eachother doesn't matter so much. It's like language vs content
Re:Text-to-CAD by MountainMan1312 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:11PM (#38716587)
Seems like a massive waste of time to me, like hours vs seconds kind of waste of time. With 3D CAD, if I have a top view of a part and want to add a side view, it's like 3 clicks to just... make it exist. All views are derived from the 3D part/assembly, there's no effort needed to make new views pop into existence.

Maybe I'm out of date on 2D CAD knowledge, but from what I remember you'd literally have to re-sketch the entire part for the new view. Because it's drawn in 2D, you can't just "flip it on its side" like you can a 3D part. And then you have to make sure you actually sketched the part correctly and didn't forget anything.

I see it as analogous to programming with toggle switches.

Re:Text-to-CAD by iancmceachern on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:43PM (#38716765)
Exact this. I can design parts in solidworks in a few minutes, drawings included, that would take much longer to draw in autocad.
Re:Text-to-CAD by liotier on Thursday December 21, 2023 @03:16AM (#38718150)
You are exactly right: 3D CAD has taken the draughtsman's job.
Re:Text-to-CAD by patkin14 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:42PM (#38716756)
Right, but I think the point is that the 2D can often be just as tedious to create as the 3D (and less enjoyable) but it gets less attention. Tools like this take for granted 2D documentation, not to mention the ability of the part to be fabricated reasonably through a standard process (CNC, injection molding, etc.)
Re:Text-to-CAD by dugite-code on Thursday December 21, 2023 @07:28AM (#38719602)
I'm actually in the building construction industry and CAD generated 2D vector documentation is still the standard go-to for workshop and design drawings. Especially when it comes to contractors as-installed drawings. Some work had moved to 3D BIM modeling but often you'll still end up with 2D for a multitude of reasons and unless something drastically changes I don't see 2D work disappearing any time soon. Specifically because you can "show for calarity" in 2D more flexibly than with any 3D system because you are not modeling a space, you are documenting it.

You "could" generate 3D objects to use in a traditional CAD package but most of the time that would be overkill and just make your drawing, at best and un-editable and at worst a performance nightmare.

Re:Text-to-CAD by contingencies on Thursday December 21, 2023 @03:55PM (#38726802)
Rest assured, if the fabricator is in demand you are being charged a premium for turning up with a PDF instead of a 3D model they can auto-convert to toolpaths.
Re:Text-to-CAD by dugite-code on Thursday December 21, 2023 @06:41PM (#38728766)
You're not going to be using toolpaths with a building.
Re:Text-to-CAD by contingencies on Thursday December 21, 2023 @10:53PM (#38730762)
Individual structural members, window and door frames are typically CNC'd off-site. Obviously the amount depends on what kind of build (eg. residential one-off, high vs. low spec, apartments, commercial, etc.) but in general for anything departing base-grade one-off small scale residential you will see more and more CNC'd elements.
Re:Text-to-CAD by 1-6 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @07:46PM (#38715744)
The gateway to 3d cad is a properly functioning 2d cad system.

At least, that’s how I view 3d.

At the very least, the tool should be able to do additive and subtractive operations (boolean). Union, add, subtract, intersect, etc.

Re:Text-to-CAD by MountainMan1312 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:58PM (#38716528)
The way I see it, 2D is inherently included in 3D CAD, but 2D CAD is limited it's 2D-only nature.

Parts physically exist in 3D CAD. When you're working on your blueprint, it's done more-or-less by performing the operations on the part that will be performed when it's manufactured. Every 2D view you could ever want is inherently included in a 3D part.

But 2D... it's not much better than sketching by hand on a piece of paper. Everything's disconnected. You can forget to add a feature to a view, you can make mistakes between views. With 3D if you add a new flange or a hole or whatever to a part, every drawing is instantly updated.

Re:Text-to-CAD by fouc on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @07:06PM (#38715389)
I've noticed the same problem, no LLM to manufacturing/construction CAD yet as far as I can tell?

It would be nice to feed the LLM a set of dimensions, constraints, desired features, etc and have a few different versions generated. Quickly explore the problem space of designing house for a piece of land, or for 3d printing.

Re:Text-to-CAD by huytersd on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @06:39PM (#38715122)
It’s trivial to take a 2D image DALLE3 or midjourney generate and vectorize it (illustrator etc.)
Re:Text-to-CAD by 1-6 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @07:52PM (#38715783)
A machine should be able to interpret topographic lines and generate an architectural floor plan that minimizes cut and fill.
Re:Text-to-CAD by ben_w on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @07:47PM (#38715747)
If you're getting your engineering plans from Midjourney etc., something is likely to explode.
Re:Text-to-CAD by cm2187 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:08PM (#38716235)
To be honest from the sample prompts they provide you would be lucky if any two pieces fits together.
Re:Text-to-CAD by rdlw on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:02PM (#38716544)
It's like the joke about the group of engineering professors who were invited to fly in a plane.

After they get comfortably seated, they are informed that the plane was built by their students.

All but one jump out of their seats and immediately run for the exits.

Later, the lone professor who remained calm was interviewed, as he clearly had more confidence in the ability of his students than any of the others.

“It's true, I know my students' ability very well, and I can tell you for a fact this plane won't move an inch.”

Re:Text-to-CAD by doubloon on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:30PM (#38716352)
What is the Architectual equivalent of a hand with twelve fingers and nonsense lettering
Re:Text-to-CAD by xsmasher on Thursday December 21, 2023 @11:16PM (#38730878)
a McMansion
Re:Text-to-CAD by ben_w on Friday December 22, 2023 @04:27AM (#38732509)
Re:Text-to-CAD by huytersd on Thursday December 21, 2023 @09:36PM (#38730269)
Depends on what it is. I use DALLE3/midjourney to give me ideas for furniture pieces all the time and then build them. This is obviously not as complicated as a CAD for a building but it’s still a great starting point.
Re:Text-to-CAD by fouc on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @07:07PM (#38715398)
that's not really suitable for the manufacturing/building route
Re:Text-to-CAD by dheera on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @06:45PM (#38715169)
That kind of vectorization is a royal pain to edit.
Re:Text-to-CAD by cyanydeez on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @06:59PM (#38715303)
inkscape is pretty go at everything except simplification.
Re:Text-to-CAD by patkin14 on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @10:37PM (#38716724)
We are doing this at drafterinc.com, automating 2D documentation from the 3D model. Let me know if you want to learn more