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Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by cookiengineer on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:14AM (#38429488)
Some could argue that Brother printers adhere to the POSIX / UNIX philosophy: Solve one problem only, and solve it well.

In the end it somewhat boils down to pure greed. Instead of stabilizing production costs and/or reusing generic components to ease up manufacturing and repair - HP, Epson, Canon, Dell, Samsung, Kyocera and others try to hype their products with whatever tech stack is currently in trend. "growth hacking" is literally their job description.

There eventually will be a ChatGPT printer on the market. It's inevitable due to what kind of people manage a printer business: It's not the type of people that know how to build printers anymore.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by vidarh on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:28AM (#38429627)
"As a language model I don't think this is the tone you should take in a letter to your printer manufacturer. Instead of the long string of expletives, here is a suggested letter of praise for your printers reliability, and an order for more toner instead:

..."

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by layer8 on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:05AM (#38429950)
It will just silently "auto-correct" the letter instead.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by jll29 on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:10AM (#38429996)
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by vidarh on Monday November 27, 2023 @05:11AM (#38430519)
But that was at least a bug, and a somewhat understandable one (though still stupid). I did my MSc on doing statistical methods to reduce error rates in OCR, and one of the methods that actually worked very well was various nearest neighbour variations over small windows of the pixel data. As part of that I did a literature review, of course, and there has been quite a lot of work on various algorithms for cleaning up images by trying to replace patches of pixels with presumed "clean" samples (sometimes from a known font, but more often by applying various clustering methods to patches from the image itself). Get that wrong and you'd very easily end up with something like this.

My own methods would also have easily produced this kind of error if you set the threshold for what to consider identical when clustering high enough. But for OCR the risk is somewhat mitigated by people not trusting it to be error-free, and so it can be an acceptable tradeoff if it reduces the overall error rate, but if you're outputting the raw pixel data and let people think it's an unmanipulated image you're begging for trouble.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by vidarh on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:57AM (#38430403)
You're probably right - I'd not make a good printer company executive, I'm not cynical enough.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by anonymouskimmer on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:12AM (#38430013)
> Solve one problem only, and solve it well.

I unfortunately discovered that my brand new Brother printer can only communicate over 2.4 GHz wifi, which conflicts with the 5 GHz my phone requires (my router can only do one at a time, and there's no way I'm switching as needed). So USB it is.

It's one of their cheapest inkjets (MFC-1010DW), but I selected it for features more than price. Wish I had read the documentation. I would have purchased the next model up.

Nicely compact compared to the ~10 year old Canon that died recently.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by iamflimflam1 on Monday November 27, 2023 @05:48AM (#38430768)
This is going to become a bigger problem over time. A lot of the embedded chips that provide WiFi only supported 2.4GHz. There’s a whole bunch of devices that just aren’t going to work.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by hales on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:11AM (#38430914)
> my router can only do one at a time, and there's no way I'm switching as needed

That's abysmal! Every 5GHz Wifi AP I've ever come across lets you run both PHYs at the same time.

Please, on my behalf, sternly talk down to your router.

Even ignoring the massive issue of device compatibility: 5GHz and its protocols do not have anywhere the range and penetrating power of 2.4GHz. When I walk outside my house I can keep watching videos, but my laptop does this by transitioning to the 2GHz radio link modes.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by octacat on Monday November 27, 2023 @07:20AM (#38431435)
oh, I actually needed to check routers recently. Prices like 5 years ago but specs for cheaper models are "slightly broken". Like 2.4+5 router, but only 100MBit ethernet (and full AC speed for wireless). So, you kinda have "cheap" models, but to get a real usable router you have to pay the full price. Marketing.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by anonymouskimmer on Monday November 27, 2023 @12:41PM (#38435399)
It's an 8 year old SBG6580-2 with radio button selection for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz on the web interface. I bought the cheapest one guaranteed to work with Xfinity to save on the rental costs. I'll upgrade when they force a move from DOCSIS 3.0. Just like I'll upgrade my cheapest smart phone with a replaceable battery when they force a move from 4G (or finally make a workable phone with a physical keyboard again).
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by amluto on Monday November 27, 2023 @01:34PM (#38436190)
Eww!

Whenever you replace it, get a separate AP and modem.

Also, DOCSIS 3.1 modems come with queue management. You may benefit significantly from an upgrade even if nothing else changes.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by vGPU on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:34PM (#38437861)
Just spend the $150 on an omada eap670 and call it a day.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by pdntspa on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:54PM (#38437312)
In a lot of places 2.4ghz is unusable because of the density of networks transmitting in the space. I live in a SFH in a lower-tier metro and only 5ghz is performant
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by filterfiber on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:15PM (#38438410)
Most cheap wifi modules are all 2.4ghz, so printers, iot stuff, etc will almost certainly be 2.4ghz. Like 1$ cheap.

> only 5ghz is performant

Most of these barely need any bandwidth. A printer is possibly on the higher end of bandwidth, but I think the number of printers that support 5GHZ is possibly still single digits.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by spookie on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:21PM (#38438506)
Doesn't help that Bluetooth is on the same spectrum
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by jrockway on Monday November 27, 2023 @01:41PM (#38436308)
The main function of the popular ESP32 microcontroller is to preserve 2.4GHz WiFi for the next 20 years.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by filterfiber on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:17PM (#38438449)
Are there any microcontrollers in the 1$ to 5$ range with 5GHz?

And/or documented microcontrollers that are purchasable in the states?

Won't 2.4GHz have better range anyway over 5GHZ?

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by jrockway on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:30PM (#38438636)
The ESP32-C5 has dual band support: https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32-C5

I think that 2.4GHz having longer range is a myth. When I worked on WiFi for Google Fiber we tested it pretty extensively and didn't see any common building materials that attenuated 2.4GHz more than 5GHz. Historically, the problem was that routers often selected low-power channels for 5GHz. If you use a channel where the maximum power is permitted, 5GHz is just as good.

The 5GHz band plan is kind of complicated. You will want to ensure that you get a 160MHz channel. How you accomplish that varies by region, unfortunately.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by filterfiber on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:39PM (#38449440)
Hopefully it becomes available soon.

Oddly the C6 was announced before the C5 I think is only now making it's way onto devkits.

> When I worked on WiFi for Google Fiber we tested it pretty extensively and didn't see any common building materials that attenuated 2.4GHz more than 5GHz.

Huh interesting, I might have to play with that at some point (I'm hoping either ubiquiti or openwrt will let me do that).

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by tass on Monday November 27, 2023 @01:56PM (#38436556)
It’s pretty typical for printers (and a huge amount of iot devices) to only support 2.4GHz. I’m a little impressed that this is the first device you found this incompatibility with.

There’s some standalone dual-band access points on sale this weekend for <$40 right now which would solve your problem.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by anonymouskimmer on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:01PM (#38437402)
> I’m a little impressed that this is the first device you found this incompatibility with.

Don't be. A comprehensive list of our WiFi-capable devices are two smartphone models, the printer, and two laptops that are plugged in to wired connections.

Edit: Forgot about the two wireless work laptops.

For our purposes the 10 foot USB cable solves the problem fine.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by fuzzfactor on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @05:09AM (#38444243)
I got one of the Brother laser types a couple years ago, hooked it up to a single PC using the USB cable, then shared that PC's printer with the rest of the network.

Since Wifi on the printer was not in use at this point, it was then possible to simultaneously connect an additional wireless PC when needed, directly to the printer using the printer's Wifi-Direct alternative.

Interestingly, the printer was connected to the USB socket of a Windows XP client, but I had also ended up adding some Windows 8, 10, & 11 PC's to the network through time.

IT was not optimistic since the new printers have no drivers for Windows XP, plus this was a discontinued model havng no drivers newer than Windows 8 either.

Windows 7 drivers worked fine for XP, Windows 8 drivers worked for Windows 10, so everything was good.

When Windows 11 came out, there was a notice on the Brother website advising that you would need to wait over 30 days before they would be posting compatible drivers.

When they did post the W11 drivers, they were the exact same files that had already been released for W10 years earlier. Apparently the factory only needed to confirm there were no show-stoppers when installed in W11, with no modification of the drivers needed.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:50PM (#38448572)
Thanks, I'll see if I can get printer sharing working.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by waveBidder on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:21AM (#38429545)
thanks I hate it. definitely wouldn't bet against you on that.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by ohuf on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:43AM (#38431150)
I must have missed the Blockchain/Bitcoin printers
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by dubcanada on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:48AM (#38431184)
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by __loam on Monday November 27, 2023 @07:13AM (#38431379)
I mean, it's blockchain necessary to accomplish this? Probably not, but they're at least not building on top of a crypto currency.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by indrora on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:09PM (#38436731)
Brother and Canon are both really good examples of long-term thinking in Japanese companies, along with Nintendo.

All these companies still have their original core competency: Canon still makes optics, Brother still makes home equipment like sewing machines, and Nintendo to this day has not discontinued their playing card products.

Yes, you can buy Nintendo playing cards. I have several sets both modern and older and they’re very good.

These companies think in terms of decades and half-centuries. They may fall trap to occasional trends, but they’re not the ones who rush into a market to innovate; Canon started making a clone of a Leica camera and happened into doing the first indirect X-ray system in Japan, as a single example.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by vGPU on Monday November 27, 2023 @03:28PM (#38437791)
And it’s not just Japanese companies that manage to pull that off. Some others have managed to do the same. See: Lego, for example. They branched out into movies, games, and parks, but their primary and core product remains bricks.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by Exoristos on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:18PM (#38441043)
It's pretty much anything U.S. oligarchs don't control.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by indrora on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:59PM (#38441753)
Lego has had issues for years, and has faced bankruptcy[1] through to several years ago just going "Whoops we made too many bricks..."[2]

Lego's original core competency was toys, but not plastic ones. The original Lego toys were nearly all wooden, but they gained success with the plastic bricks.

It's unfortunate how many spinoffs they've had that failed.

[1] https://business.time.com/2012/07/23/innovation-almost-bankr...

[2]https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298897

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by soco on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:19PM (#38462130)
Well let's not overdo it. Right now if you search the Brother knowledge base to troubleshoot something you'll be surprised to see that the questions are there, but each and every answer says "the page you requested was removed". It works as long it works but in the end, it's the same garbage company.
Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by GCA10 on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:16PM (#38436829)
Truth.

I got years of use out of a second-hand Brother 2350 printer and then eventually some of the electronics failed. I needed a new printer and I still owned a couple unused Brother toner cartridges. Imagine my joy when I discovered that Brother would sell me a new model that still used the same toner system.

Sticking with the same spartan feature set was fine by me. It's all I need. I didn't even bother looking at the other makers' low-end offerings. Brother's approach of treating printing as a solved problem (Build once; sell often) is so much simpler and more cost-efficient than the super-frisky alternative (Build many times; sell once)

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by axus on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:58PM (#38437354)
I'm pretty sure mine came with some OCR PDF-generating software. It has Fax functions I never use, Copy functions that come in handy several times a year, and Scan I've used a few times. The web admin interface seems to have a lot of options.

But all that stuff doesn't get in the way of the core feature, network laser printing.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by antod on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:56PM (#38440353)
I haven't actually had any printer at all for a while, but we had a cheap networked double sided Brother laser that lasted for ages.

One of the best bits was the no nonsense Windows drivers and easy Linux Postscript compatibility that just worked out of the box.

I was willing to forgive a whole lot of flaws due to it's low price, but it turned out have very few.

Re:Brother [printers] have gotten to where they are now, by ... by jacobgorm on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:40AM (#38443066)
I never got actual Postscript to we work on Linux and my Brother. It looks like the ripping runs on the host side, and what gets printed is bitmaps. Works fine on Mac and windows though.