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Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by kstrauser on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:22PM (#38358680)
You mean when the advertising companies pulled their money from Twitter after its owner said Jews "pushing [...] hatred against whites" was "the actual truth"? Darn those woke hippies at... let's see... IBM!

Or maybe, just maybe, the simpler explanation is that they don't want their ads running alongside that trash.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by bad_username on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:05PM (#38359040)
> You mean when the advertising companies pulled their money from Twitter after its owner said Jews "pushing [...] hatred against whites" was "the actual truth"?

Not really, because I specifically stated that my response was not about the Musk situation. "Jewish communities hate whites" does sound pretty antisemitic to me.

But so does the equivalent trash of "all whites are racist", which for some reason is a-ok for the advertising companies.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by squigz on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:09AM (#38359568)
> But so does the equivalent trash of "all whites are racist", which for some reason is a-ok for the advertising companies.

Is it okay with them? Any kind of proof to back this up?

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by bad_username on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:15AM (#38359621)
The "White fragility" book by Robin DiAngelo brought this message to the main stream. It was carried very widely by ad networks.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by squigz on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:23AM (#38359698)
Out of curiosity, do you also think critical race theory says that white people are racist?
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Always_Anon on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:28PM (#38462249)
It absolutely does.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by spondylosaurus on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:11PM (#38359094)
> But so does the equivalent trash of "all whites are racist", which for some reason is a-ok for the advertising companies.

So... free speech? To the extent that advertising is speech, I guess?

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by mindslight on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:03AM (#38359529)
It's "a-ok" because the advertising companies are racist - as they've generally always been.

I've been pondering a thought that we need to stop treating racism as something like a witch hunt, and analyze it more like poop. Something that will never be eliminated, but rather is everyone's responsibility to minimize. Anyone can get some on their hands by accident, laziness, or dealing with a problem. But you don't come out of the bathroom waving it around and expecting to be appreciated. And if a bunch of people started proudly declaring that they shouldn't have to wash their hands and generally validating each others' slobbery, they'd be rightfully shunned.

This framing has some nice results like the contortions around "reverse" racism and the whitewashing of "positive" racism as "not racism" aren't necessary. If you're engaging in collectivism based on race, that's racism - regardless of whether your intent is "good" or "bad". And sometimes that's inevitable (cf "dealing with a problem"), but that doesn't mean it's ever something to really be celebrated.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by pyvpx on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:12PM (#38359104)
bad_understanding_of_racism
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by zmgsabst on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:34PM (#38359291)
Many racists proclaim people “misunderstand racism” when their different standards for different races are denounced for being racist.

After 160 years of the same political party fighting to rebuild racism, generation after generation, people are done hearing the moralizing excuses for why this time Democrats have the magic formula for virtuous bigotry.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Falmarri on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @04:47AM (#38361534)
>After 160 years of the same political party fighting to rebuild racism

Is this serious comment? There was nothing that happened in the parties in the 1960s? Maybe 1964? All of a sudden the people in the south just suddenly decided to no longer be racist, and joined the Republican party fighting _against_ racism?

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by zmgsabst on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:37AM (#38364193)
Yes — the same party has been persistently racist.

After the Civil War, they formed the KKK and Jim Crow to circumvent civil rights.

In modern times, they implemented racial quotas then racial preferences, both of which were ruled illegal bigotry by the US Supreme Court. (At Harvard and UNC, just last year.)

The same party who called blacks “super predators” (Clinton) and whose current president described integrated schools as a “racial jungle” (Biden).

The same party whose supporters are in the streets today, chanting genocidal slogans such as “from the river to the sea”.

The former DNC chairwoman just this week mocked the name of someone born in the US with Indian heritage and told him to “go home!”

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4319012-vivek-ramaswamy-c...

That you think the Democrats are anything but persistently racist is a testament to how well propaganda works.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by zozbot234 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:52PM (#38462607)
> All of a sudden the people in the south just suddenly decided to no longer be racist

That's pretty much what happened. The CRA (passed despite the opposition of southern Democrats) shifted the social equilibrium away from racism and a segregated society being totally normal and state-sanctioned, and Southern states had to reinvent themselves along different lines. They broadly chose economic freedom starting from the 1980s (despite continuing opposition by Dems, who to this day favor heavy-handed state intervention and a highly paternalistic attitude towards minorities), which is what created the modern Sunbelt.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by pyvpx on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @05:14PM (#38371136)
you can’t be racist against white people. the definition of racism centers on power not the tone of dermis. read some different books and open up that independent thinking some.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Izkata on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:01PM (#38373129)
That is a very new definition created by the woke left to justify being racist against white people. Pretty much only they believe it.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by zmgsabst on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @12:29AM (#38375058)
Institutional racism happens against white people — and denying that is supporting racism, even by your modern definition meant to minimize the on-going racism of the Democratic Party.

Eg, this racist policy by Democrats.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-farmers-loan-forgiveness-...

Democrats are also systemically racist to Asians such as at Harvard and UNC.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/20-1199_hgdj.pdf

I’d encourage you to stop taking your talking points from KKK meetings about how you’re virtuous for engaging in race-based discrimination.

Your modern apologetics for bigotry are as vapid as 1920s Klansmen talking about “protecting their community”.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Always_Anon on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:32PM (#38462307)
1930s Europe:

"you can’t be racist against Jewish people. the definition of racism centers on power not the tone of dermis. read some different books (Mein Kampf, The International Jew) and open up that independent thinking some."

Pat yourself on the back I guess. Your blind hatred of White people has caused you to use literal Nazi rhetoric.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by foolswisdom on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:28PM (#38358714)
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by kstrauser on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:35PM (#38358780)
It's exactly what happened. Here. Go read it: https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299

User @breakingbaht said:

> Okay.

> Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.

> I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much.

> You want truth said to your face, there it is.

Musk replied:

> You have said the actual truth

And then a bunch of advertisers slashed their Twitter ad budgets, and Musk sued someone else.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about Ben Shapiro's take on Musk's words.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:13PM (#38359108)
"Jewish Communities" doesn't mean "All Jews", and that's obvious to anyone not looking for a reason to be angry. Muslim communities just bombed the hell out of Israel, and that's not islamophobic to say, because it doesn't implicate all Muslims.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Yoric on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:06AM (#38359549)
I don't know about that. As a reader, I find that "Jewish Communities" very much sounds like "All Jews" and "Muslim Communities" very much sounds like "All Muslims". If that's not what the authors mean, I'm sure that there are much, much better phrasings.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:09AM (#38359564)
That may very well be your own bias. If I say "Christian Communities hate gays", you'll probably think of one or two specific communities. When I saw "Jewish Communities" in gp's headline, I immediately thought "oh, the ADL", because they're bigots and don't really hide it.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by vacuity on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:13AM (#38359602)
Everyone has biases, and you're not exempt. If you know that your language might be grossly misinterpreted, consider changing it, if only for your own image.

> If I say "Christian Communities hate gays", you'll probably think of one or two specific communities.

That might be true for me, but I'm thinking of "Protestant Christian evangelicals and co." as one community, so...

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:47AM (#38359858)
> If you know that your language might be grossly misinterpreted, consider changing it, if only for your own image.

No, if only to make a point.

> That might be true for me, but I'm thinking of "Protestant Christian evangelicals and co." as one community, so...

Yup. What I expected. I'm positively full of bias, and happy to admit it.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by vacuity on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @01:13AM (#38360023)
And my point is that "Muslim communities bombed Israel" is not an obviously reasonable statement. If Reuters or AP posted an article with that phrasing, I'd wonder if some party other than Hamas was fighting Israel now. At that point, why not just say "Muslims bombed Israel"? It's technically true but also wildly disingenuous. You'd have to qualify it with a bunch of details in order to make it an honest, good-faith statement.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @02:08AM (#38360364)
But it's the literal truth, and using a descriptor on a group of people acting does not attribute the action to all people who fit the descriptor. Not all mammals are dogs, and that shouldn't need to be said.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Yoric on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @03:59AM (#38361154)
You're confusing semantics and subtext.

The clear subtext in your examples is "Jews" (not "some Jews"), "Muslims" (not "some Muslims"), "Christians" (not "some Christians"). A racist (or variant thereof) will not say "all Jews"/"all Muslims"/"all Gays"/... , they'll just casually namedrop "Jews" (or even a single Jewish personality), "Muslims" (or even a single Muslim personality), "Gays" (or even a single Gay personality), and use this as a dogwhistle.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Yoric on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @03:56AM (#38361134)
If you write "Christian Communities hate gays", I will very much read "all Christian communities". And deduce that you're probably spewing nonsense, just as with "Jewish communities" and "Muslim communities".

Also, please do not make assumptions on my biases.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:43AM (#38364257)
Sure, how about "dogs bite people", then?
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Yoric on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @10:18AM (#38364759)
It definitely means that, as a general rule, dogs bite people. It might not mean all dogs, but it's definitely a warning against dogs in general.

Now, transpose this to human beings. The message we're commenting is a warning against Jewish Communities, i.e. I can't think of any reasonable way to interpret it other than as antisemitism.

Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by vacuity on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:10AM (#38359578)
You say "that's obvious" but your terminology is ambiguous. I wouldn't say "Muslim communities bombed Israel". To me, that sounds something along the lines of "the predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East teamed up and bombed Israel".
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by rpmisms on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @02:12AM (#38360400)
And that's your bias speaking, since my statement is factual. It's perfectly normal, and you can accept that my meaning and your interpretation can be wildly different, therefore accusing me of the worst possible interpretation is unfair.
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by Falmarri on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @04:50AM (#38361561)
It's totally fair. If you're going to be intentionally ambiguous just because it's technically correct, we can just assume you're an asshole and extrapolate from there
Re:My Free Speech Means You Have to Shut Up by nvm0n2 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @04:15AM (#38361274)
These same companies are noticeably silent over the outpouring of support for Hamas on TikTok and other platforms, or when #KillAllMen was trending on old Twitter.

> that trash

... is defined ideologically, it's the point being made here.