Oh man, I haven't teared up that heavily in a while. That has to be one of the saddest sounds I've ever heard.

My theory is that humans inject this into it. My observation and feelings are that animals see themselves as part of a much larger whole and don’t worry too much about being the “final whatever”, it’s just a concept.

Ironically it’s our quest to not be the last songbird that seems to keep ruining the planet for the songbirds.

I think we humans overestimate how unique we are. We're at the top of a wide spectrum of intelligence, but it's startling the degree to which even secularly-minded people see our species as different in kind than the rest of the animal kingdom—I normally associate that kind of human exceptionalism with religion.

I'm not familiar enough with birds to speak about them, but other mammalian species absolutely understand loneliness, and understand the difference between having human friends and having friends of their same species.

I’m actually more in agreement with you. That fact we’ve caused this level of suffering is abhorrent to me.

I agree that they feel loneliness too. But not the same level of anxiety about “what if I don’t exist, or my species or bloodline” doesn’t go on.

> But not the same level of anxiety about “what if I don’t exist, or my species or bloodline” doesn’t go on.

To some extent, sure. But I think some of this is us habituating to pets who were sterilized prior to puberty. In post-pubertal animals the drives to have and rear children are pretty strong.

> We are not “special” at all. We have no right making other species go extinct

That is self contradictory. A lot of species go extinct due to other species.

If we don't have that "right", that makes us special.

Rights are a fiction we made up for our own benefit, like money and the abstract concept of fish.

So is the concept of "fiction" made up too?

Dunno. As distinct from lies? Perhaps.

IIRC early Christianity thought acting violated the ten commandments, and some fiction writers today say their job is to tell lies for money.

You missed my point

That comes across like "for more information, please re-read" on a Scarfolk Council poster.

>I think we humans overestimate how unique we are.

That a lot of us refuse to see ourselves as part of the animal kingdom is indication enough.

Let's also not forget our pompous assumption that only humans can make and use tools (debunked), only humans can feel emotions (debunked), and so on.

If something ferocious ever comes around to knock humanity down several pegs, it will be very deserved.

I mean is it that unreasonable to think that humans are radically different from any other species we know? Because we obviously are. I don't see any dogs writing on this forum to dispute the uniqueness of humans any time soon. There are clearly many things that we humans can do and no other animal can. A study about chimps using sticks to hunt termites isn't going to be enough to bridge that gap.

"Deserved" is a human concept. Pretty much all 'smart' animals (orcas, dolphins, bonobos, etc.) engage in extremely cruel behaviors towards other species or even to their kind. They are no better than us. We're the only ones who are having moral qualms over it (and we should).

By this logic, cuttlefish must think we’re low iq deafmutes because they don’t see us communicating via variously uv-sensitive patterns on our skin as we trundle along in the ocean.

Something as pea brained as a groundhog has calls to describe the shape, color, threat level, and individuality of any number of warning calls. Orcas literally have memes. I’m sure if dolphins could use the internet we’d get so much “dead fish on head” r/fashionadvice.

I agree with you that I think there is some fundamental truth with humans not being any different than animals, or really plants, etc for that matter. That life is a stubborn, collective, anti-entropic force fighting - for a bit at least - against the cold eventuality of the universe. And in that picture it’s difficult to place humans as logically superior to or separate from any other force of life.

On the other hand, I have a hard time squaring that with practical morality. If all life is equally valuable, we all commit the crime of murder just to eat and survive. That does not feel quite right. And if we say that life is maybe not so valuable, then does it mean the crime of murder itself is not wrong? I think that also doesn’t feel right.

So maybe it’s not that all life is equally valuable, but rather life is valuable. Equality is a human construction, after all - unchecked nature is much more vicious in dealing with inequality in the margins. Life consumes life, that is how it is. It is a cycle that doesn’t quite repeat, and there is no destruction of life in sustenance, only transformation.

And maybe that is what happens when one species - or a million - dies out. Perhaps that is nature’s brutal callousness in action, and as such is a perfectly natural thing to happen. I don’t think I quite like that either.

Every time I have a deep think on the way things are, I’m reminded of the Buddhists, who I think found at least some truth in it all: “life is suffering”. I’m not sure there’s much more to it than that.

> animals see themselves as part of a much larger whole

I really don't think animals pay any attention to abstract concepts like this at all.

Let me rephrase actually. They don’t think it. They just know it. They don’t live in constant anxiety like us.

I think most prey animals in fact do live in a constant state of anxiety.

I see you have not met my friend's dog.

>They just know it.

Tell that to cane toads.

They may or may not see themselves as "the last one", but that's independent from them being lonely because of it.

This Mountain Goats song about extinction, and being the last of your kind makes me tear up every time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_TETgMSNA

Lyrics excerpt:

In Costa Rica, in a burrow underground // Climb to the surface, blink my eyes and look around // I'm all alone here as I try my tiny song // Claim my place beneath the sky, but I won't be here for long //

I sang all night // The moon shone on me through the trees // No brothers left // And there'll be no more after me //