Was the adoption of Discord by the FreeBSD community controversial?

Alongside Discord, we have the /r/freebsd subreddit; a Matrix instance (not yet listed); The FreeBSD Foundation on Mastodon (not yet listed); and so on.

The last update to the Community page was by me. In an ideal world: I'd now add what's missing. In reality: I chose to resign (my doc commit bit was taken in for safekeeping).

Side note: when I last checked, servers for The FreeBSD Forums were not (officially) hosted by The FreeBSD Project.

HTH

Just like a decade+ ago they thought web forums were vastly inferior to mailing lists.

And they were right on both counts =)

A good web forum is vastly superior to mailing lists.

Matrix, with suitable clients, is vastly superior to IRC.

I'm above the age of thirty-five by twenty-three years and three quarters.

I'm right on all counts ;-)

This is easily refutable - one can make a web frontend to mailing list that imitates the look of any forum. Getting forum into email client (or other frontend) not so much ;-P

And of course NNTP is superior to both.

NNTP is not looking good for the Project. Please see, for example:

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/192271/253798105-4...

At the time, mid-July: "twelve on-topic threads this year – overall, probably not bad enough to justify delisting."

NNTP looks far worse for other groups that are promoted.

Fundamentally there is very little difference between NNTP group and mailing list except the former having no spam filter and moderation.

It would be great if all mailing lists provided at least read-only access to archives via NNTP. I miss gmane as my one stop shop for all mailing lists.

Realistically, I can't use NNTP for things such as inline graphics e.g. screenshots.

I wanted to join a Discord that required phone number verification. I gave them the number I've had for the last 24 years, and they said it was invalid because it is hosted on Google Voice. I asked for alternative authentication and they said, and I quote,

"Do you have a friend who doesn't use Discord? Can you just use their phone to verify yourself?".

Since then I've been very anti-Discord (but will still occasionally pop on because there are some interesting communities there).

I've joined multiple programming Discords. When I post, where am I notified of the new replies to me? Or new threads in reply to my messages? I'm convinced I'm missing replies, so end up scrolling up and down history trying to spot them.

I use Slack for a dozen programming Slacks and I get the UI and what's going on. Discord feels alien. Being able to trust the communication platform... that matters.

Notifications in Discord are a PITA. And the rest, yeah.

It took me by surprise, but there was no controversy.

But I just use the irc channels. Or matrix which is just as good as discord and respects my privacy.

> I started using two decades ago...use old school style C on microcontrollers regularly!

Those two statements do not necessary contradict each other. C evolves and skills required on large programs are vastly different from microcontrollers.

Look from other side of an open-source developer and maintainer. You have to spend several hours polishing unfinished Pull Request, only to give other person credit as a "commiter". If you throw away the PR, and instead spend 10 minutes writing it yourself, you "stole" the credit.

Many people do Pull Requests, only to pad their CV! Drama like this is why I do not accept any patches.

Thanks

But it is most common motivation maintainers face. Another one is some sort of "PR notch hunting".

And just because I am in maintainer role, does not mean I signed up for mentorship role. If you want proper support, I do consultations at $200/hour.

Many maintainers are unpaid volunteers!

Plus it is a liability. They may get offended by something, and start a smear campaign.

RTFM is perfect solid answer. It is great repelent on drama. If you take it politely, I will even point you to specific chapters.

I don't think the PR reviewer is calling the author a liar. The reviewer said FreeBSD is not willing to lie to its users about version, and instead provided useful info, pointing out the relevant example.

Still, there's a lesson for reviewers that tone is important, especially over text and where a power differential exists.

Also, the author notes:

> The very first comment in the thread from a reviewer was simply only one word: “Why?” - That’s it, just one word. Why did I do this? Why work with such old hardware? Why is the sky blue? How the hell am I to know the context of what they’re referring to when asking a one-worded question?

Its clear from https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/pull/189#discussion... that the author is asking why is this line needed, something a PR author should always be able to justify.

It's their job to ensure that the code is there for a good reason. That is how the quality is upheld.

I used to be a FreeBSD user back in the days of walnut creek CD-ROM.

But today I see very little reason to torture myself with FreeBSD. So why should anyone else?

I get the sentiment that it's good to have diversity and competition, but if you want to get a job done then Linux is the best out right now.

Netflix used FreeBSD for their entire CDN.

No need for the past tense; they still do.

I mean: I think of the CDN having its control system in addition to controlled appliances, and so on.

"Netflix delivers streaming content using a combination of intelligent clients, a central control system, and a network of Open Connect appliances. …"

Netflix portrays FreeBSD in the Open Connect software context:

https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/appliances/#software

Well, I still get more done on Linux.

No doubt, so do I. FreeBSD is good for very specific things like rock solid stability and intense networking. But for general purpose use I too prefer Linux, because it gets all the new toys first.

If I want to build a rock solid stable internet service, I reach for FreeBSD. If I want to use a Unix desktop I reach for MacOS. If I want to have a personal server for messing around with or running some proof-of-concept app or website, I reach for Linux.

Each has its uses.

Not as funny as things changing without you noticing ;-)

Torture is a little dramatic lol. Why should anyone else? If it meets their needs, if they feel comfortable using, or it has a particular feature they like/need.

Check out the use cases and testimonials:

https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd-project/what-is-freebs... https://freebsdfoundation.org/about-us/testimonials/

If you wonder why the first of those two pages is entirely rewritten: see what's going on with the Enterprise Working Group.

https://wiki.freebsd.org/EnterpriseWorkingGroup

Please note, that group's work is necessarily focused. There's a definition of 'general purpose enterprise server', and so on.

Other groups have focii that differ from, or overlap with, general purpose enterprise server. Most obvious: desktop and embedded.

HTH

First suggestion is to separate out the personal greavances from the ideas for the project and present them as distinct issues.

There is a section of this posting that reads like what I would send to an HR department when trying to get accommodation.

I can't speak for Vince, but he's clearly unhappy, so I give him plenty of slack with freedom of expression.

related to freebsd? what was your situation?

Pleasantly under the radar:

https://www.freebsd.org/status/report-2023-07-2023-09/

via https://redd.it/17lr4vp

Whatever it was, I hope it wasn't the result of anything serious.

I think I see you over the freebsd subreddit; you're comments are almost always informative and helpful.

But, I don't want it to be too mainstream. I picked it precisely because I think Linux is becoming too mainstream with too much involvement from big tech. I think things are just fine as they are.

I use it, admittedly not as a daily driver, but I have it installed on thinkpad and am familiar with 3 of the BSD's. I think FreeBSD does have some issues, some laid out in this letter. The rest seems like some drama.

Not one person alone.

>> … please note that I’ve discussed this at length with countless members of the community over the past couple of years, and several have shared strikingly similar experiences in confidence. …

Trying to peek inside an ecosystem here.

I dont think that everything belongs in the port tree. Being told that it does not, should not automatically be taken a personal insult.

>Many reviewers want things to be 100% absolutely perfect when a submission hits >their desk, so all they have to do is click “merge” and be done with it. If >things are not perfect, then the submission will either sit idle forever, or >worse, passive aggressive commentary starts.