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Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by darkwater on Thursday November 02, 2023 @06:30AM (#38111451)
I want to use this space to instead praise publicly Home Assistant, it's IMO one of the biggest and most-useful opensource project out there, it's very professional and it let you do thing that are simply unthinkable with any other "smart hub" from a proprietary vendor. I can control a wifi device with a zigbee button, use an NFC and scan it with a mobile phone to execute some action in some software that doesn't even know what NFCs are etc etc etc.

It also permits you to build a real "local-first" home automation system, which is the only way a home automation system should be, ever.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by jakecopp on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:26AM (#38112540)
Seconding this. I was able to just run it with docker compose on a cheap mini PC and it chugs away happily, interfacing with all manner of devices (Phillips/Lifx/IKEA/Airpurifier/Bunnings brands). Only gets tricky to set up devices when you're dealing with some hostile cloud based gadget that doesn't want to play nice.

Unbelievable it can all be controlled offline using Siri on an iPhone, or other voice assistants.

It can even display your electricity consumption by counting the LED pulses on your smart electricity meter that fires every 1000th of a kw/h, only takes a cheap ESP32 and a photodiode: https://github.com/klaasnicolaas/home-assistant-glow

Such a wonderful project.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by PaulWaldman on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:39AM (#38112691)
>Unbelievable it can all be controlled offline using Siri on an iPhone, or other voice assistants.

Does your iPhone need an i ternet connection for this to work?

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by Cyph0n on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:08AM (#38112993)
No, just WiFi. Your HA server acts as a HomeKit bridge and exposes its entities to the iOS Home app.
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by rj45jackattack on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:36AM (#38112655)
Lots of negativity in here. So this is nice. I use HA at home and it's nothing short of amazing. I primarily use Zigbee devices and they all just work. I pay Nabu Casa for the external access and Google integration. I look forward to replacing my Google Homes with HA as well.
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by asylteltine on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:54AM (#38112832)
I don’t understand the negativity at all. HA rivals or exceeds commercial automation systems like crestron, RTI, etc. clearly those people don’t have any industry experience. I’ve generally never had an issue with HA beyond my own fault, like a buggy integration.
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by MPSimmons on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:02AM (#38112919)
Home Assistant is an amazing project. I use it a ton, and I deeply appreciate what they've done.

HOWEVER, Lovelace specifically is pretty terrible. Having used Grafana extensively, trying to use Lovelace to arrange a UI is so far backwards that it's constantly grating to try to create or modify dashboards. I really wish there was a way to use Grafana as the UI and embed cards as panels. The ability to drag and drop, resize, and move UI elements would be a godsend, but instead it feels like I'm writing Tk-style UI arrangement in yaml, and it's awful, so I do it as infrequently as possible.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by darkwater on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:50AM (#38113491)
On that I agree, giving what's possible with opensource UIs like Grafana's, it could be probably borrowed (I mean, the whole JS code) in Lovelace as well. But I guess there is some debt from early versions that makes that more complicated.
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by asylteltine on Thursday November 02, 2023 @12:37PM (#38116160)
That’s true. Lovelace needs js and css to look pretty. Most dashboards are terrible. I hope they dump it
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by ender341341 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:14PM (#38116805)
Lovelace is pretty terrible, 1 hint I can give is to use vertical stacks, they're much easier to deal with for organizing where you want components in a given stack, then if you wanna move a component between vertical stacks go to the yaml view and cut it from source and paste it in the destination.

It's annoying to have to do a workaround like that but it makes it bearable at least.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by smarterhome on Thursday November 02, 2023 @02:30PM (#38117968)
I agree the UI can be improved a lot but in my experience a truly well done smart home does not need a lot of UI. I have automated pretty much everything and only use Grafana to show some data. If you actually want to include Grafana panels in Loveloce... that actually works. I described how to do that on my blog here if you are interested: https://thesmarthomejourney.com/2021/05/30/add-grafana-to-ho...
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by MikusR on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:17PM (#38116865)
The negativity is because it's a free project that competes with the thousands of home automation startups.
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by quickthrowman on Thursday November 02, 2023 @06:21PM (#38121134)
I’ve never seen Crestron or RTI used for commercial building automation, aside from Crestron lighting controls on a rare occasion. Crestron is mostly an A/V company with a lighting controls line as far as I’m aware.

Building automation is owned by Johnson Controls, Carrier, Siemens, and Honeywell. There are some smaller manufacturers around, but those four plus Trane sell the vast majority of commercial building automation systems.

I manage electricians that wire up building automation systems, for what it’s worth.

And to be honest, knowing what I do about commercial building automation, I don’t see why you’d want to automate your home. If I was going to upgrade the lightning controls in my home, it would all be local non-networked controls from Lutron. I’m not sure what you’d monitor on your HVAC system.. do you really need to know what speed your furnace fan is spinning at? Most home HVAC systems aren’t large central boilers/chillers that send chilled/hot water to terminal units that can call for more heat/cold, a furnace can be controlled with its factory controls and an external thermostat.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by asylteltine on Friday November 03, 2023 @08:33AM (#38127769)
Nope incorrect. Crestron and rti offer end to end solutions for whole home automation including the commercial space. Clearly you don’t care and/or get home automation, no skin off my back. It’s not for everyone
Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by XorNot on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:43AM (#38114157)
Yep, I'm relatively new to Home Assistant but love it. Combined with ESPHome, I've got most of the lights in my house controlled (via switch changes, not smart bulbs), and my all my air conditioners via the MHI-AC-Ctrl project[1,2] (which is fantastic - ordered the boards from JLC-PCB, parts from Ali-Express (AUD$2.50 ESP8266 boards), told ESPHome to program everything and plugged them into the ports and...it all just worked!).

Just got a Mitsubishi Electric (which is different to MHI) and a Daikin at my parents house to get online - but code for both exists and I suspect the MHI boards can be reprogrammed to fulfill the role without any hardware changes.

It's incredible that the future we wanted in like, 2010 can be had and had without selling your soul to the cloud: I can leave the house, and turn off all my lights and AC's while walking out the door, or get notified if I've left my garage open - without a single cloud provider dependency, all open-source.

EDIT: And yeah...I'm starting to eye anything which has a required cloud connection as "maybe I should just crack that open and see if we swap an ESP in..." - haven't done it yet.

[1] https://github.com/absalom-muc/MHI-AC-Ctrl/

[2] https://github.com/ginkage/MHI-AC-Ctrl-ESPHome

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by hammock on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:20AM (#38114753)
Is there a beginner non-coder friendly HA “getting started” guide that someone here could recommend?

I’m interested in investing in an ecosystem of smart switches, blinds, thermostat and music that is future proof and I can take with me as I rent

Have some experience with ecobee and smart switches and trying to get onto Airplay 2 currently

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by vorpalhex on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:31AM (#38114930)
HomeAssistants official plug'n play solution is HomeAssistant Green: https://www.home-assistant.io/green

It's basically a mini computer (sbc) with homeassistant preinstalled and ready to go.

Do expect that HA will expect some attention every few months. It's not a "set and forget" thing.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by kkielhofner on Thursday November 02, 2023 @12:44PM (#38116287)
One of the things I'm really surprised by about HA/Nabu Casa is the complete lack of an LTS branch/releases.

Things related to homes are measured in years or decades. HA has gotten better about it but there are still occasional "cross your fingers and pray" scenarios when doing upgrades because every single release combines new functionality, fixes, breaking changes, and introduces new issues (of course).

People come to rely on things like their lights working and upgrade management is a tough spot - "Oh this integration broke because something else changed an API so I need to upgrade but let's find out how much time I need to update my config and hunt down any other issues".

This is one of the reasons things like Lutron are so expensive. You can have it installed and come back to the house 10 years later and everything will generally work as it did a decade ago.

For things like Nabu Casa cloud and their own hardware I'm sure plenty of people would pay a fairly significant premium for a subscriber-only LTS release that balances HA power, local, and flexible with Lutron user experience.

That said open source monetization is tough, and consumer monetization is as well. Combine the two and it sounds like a complete nightmare to me.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by vorpalhex on Thursday November 02, 2023 @02:57PM (#38118363)
I think the answer to this is generally to pin to a working version and expect to upgrade once a year unless there's a security patch.

I think the answer the HA folks would give is to point out that they are still under very heavy development and "longterm stability" just isn't something that the project has reached in a way that supports LTS. I don't think this answer is wrong - HA today is amazingly different than HA from two years ago or three years ago.

It is painful and it is why I do caution people that adopting HA means some regular investment in tooling around with it on occasion. There's a big gap still before it's ready for set-and-forget non-technical audiences.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by kkielhofner on Thursday November 02, 2023 @03:33PM (#38118807)
In a way HA is fundamentally an operating system for your home. It does target more technical users than Joe consumer but not by much in the grand scheme of things, especially as they intend to make it more and more 100% web driven, sell "plug in and go hardware", etc.

The plug in and go hardware is interesting because when you think about it a user who is intimidated to flash an SD card and stick it in a Raspberry Pi is going to have quite the shock when an upgrade eventually becomes necessary and they encounter the challenge that is trying to upgrade even a many months old HA install (forget about years).

As they target more and more users of less technical ability and sophistication this is going to only get worse and worse. If you look through this thread even the HN crowd (which leans heavily technical) is saying things that essentially come down to "the last thing I need in my life is more time spent on Github issues and random forums". Many of them end up going back around to "full home luddite" mode because they just can't stand to have to debug a light switch.

I appreciate this all too well. Many people who know me (their nerdy friend) are surprised I use iPhone, Mac, etc. I simply tell them something like "when I spend all day doing the hard tech stuff I have to do I need to be able to turn that part of my brain off and use something dumb". When I'm checked out and burnt out yes please give me the Fisher-Price experience that is the iPhone.

The issue with your upgrade approach is the same thing as all rolling releases - the more time that goes by, the more likely an upgrade is likely to break things even worse.

If you peruse the HA community forums, reddit, Discord, etc you will often see advice like "if you're not going to upgrade every month when you do upgrade do it progressively through each release", which is still and arduous and very time consuming process.

Re:Home Assistant 2023.11 by redundantly on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:27PM (#38117039)
I opted for the Home Assistant Yellow, PoE version. It has built-in zigbee support and one less cable to deal with, no DC power cord and brick.