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Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by liotier on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:54AM (#37999224)
Germany's energy policy failed badly, but consider Germany as part of the European Union with nuclear-powered France as its neighbour. Ensemble wir schaffen das !
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by ktosobcy on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:14AM (#37999434)
You mean that Germany that shits in nuclear left and right, trying to block it from EU green agenda and then threatening it's neighbours when they wanted to went nuclear?
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by liotier on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:22AM (#37999556)
That is the funny part: when the sun is down and the wind is not sufficient (surprisingly often), nuclear-hating Germany buys power from its neighbours - including France.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by mrits on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:35AM (#37999729)
At least there exists a reason to prefer nuclear power plants from being farther away from you.

What the US does with oil makes even less sense.

What the US does with the transportation of oil makes even lesser sense. If climate crisis is existential it seems like it would be worth having a few oil spills along a pipeline to save some carbon.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by Detrytus on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:00AM (#38000141)
> At least there exists a reason to prefer nuclear power plants from being farther away from you.

Not at the distances this short. If anything happens to any of the nuclear plants in France the pollution will reach Germany within 24 hours.

I've actually seen this used as an argument FOR building nuclear power plants in Poland: we already have like 10 such plants within 200 miles from our borders, so we already have all of the risks, but none of the benefits.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by mrits on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @05:54PM (#38006210)
I think you are confusing the ideas of "anything happen" with "if the worst case scenario happens". There are plenty of examples that disprove your theory.

And even in the worst case scenario the farther you are away the better.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by Detrytus on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:43AM (#37999828)
Or they power up old coal and gas plants :)
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by moooo99 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:56AM (#38000072)
> That is the funny part: when the sun is down and the wind is not sufficient (surprisingly often), nuclear-hating Germany buys power from its neighbours - including France.

I'm not sure if I understand that line of thinking. While the nuclear exit of Germany may have been short-sighted, it is what it is now. And when shit hits the fan in France because their power plants are down for maintenance or a lack of suitable coolant water, Germany exports electricity to France. That's what a supra-national electricity grid is for and that's not a topic that ever was open for debate.

Also, regarding the decision Germany made regarding nuclear power, I am not sure if it actually was the wrong one. Looking at the cost overruns and extended timelines of essentially any new nuclear reactor construction, the people complaining about nuclear power not being economically viable may have a point. Whether the much proposed alternative of small scale nuclear reactors can live up to it's promise on any kind of meaningful scale remains to be seen.

What I think is the biggest failure of German energy policy is the fact that Germany went from a leader in renewable technology to desperately lacking behind. While this demise was partially driven by the companies themselves, some extremely short sighted policy failures also are to blame.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by liotier on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:10AM (#38000289)
France concludes resorption of a huge backlog of nuclear power plant improvements that resulted in exceptional downtimes in 2021-2022. With that done and investment back to the levels it should never have fallen under, the deficit of the 2022 winter will not repeat.

As for the alleged cooling water shortages, they are not shortages but regulatory limits on downstream water temperature - which only concerns some riverine plants. With three litres evaporated per kW/h produced, plants with evaporative cooling are very far from enduring a water supply constraint.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by PurpleRamen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:41AM (#38000711)
Germany usually buys from France because it's cheaper, not because they could not supply it on their own. Europe has a tightly integrated market, and everyone is covering each other, which also allows to usually buy where it's cheapest.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by imtringued on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:04PM (#38001117)
Stupid Europeans and their cross country grid connections working as intended!! Texas did it better.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by ViewTrick1002 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:50AM (#37999964)
The current discussion is France wanting to directly subsidize existing paid-off nuclear plants with EU money because they are not competitive on the European whole-sale market anymore.

The other side argue France can do it using their own funds if they deem it necessary.

https://www.ft.com/content/b1dbd7b4-d8b9-45eb-bd18-4976f7c9a...

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by liotier on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:58AM (#38000117)
If taking into account the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) in isolation, variable renewables are more competitive.

If taking into account the System LCOE (sum of generation, integration and storage costs to reach equivalent stable supply), then nuclear wins - and that doesn't even account for the VRE's huge land use.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by ViewTrick1002 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:05AM (#38000223)
"Firmed renewables" are cheaper than or equal in cost to new nuclear today [1]. Renewables and storage are on an exponential cost reduction and learning curve, while nuclear famously has gotten more expensive with each generation [2]. Given that nuclear is uncompetitive against against renewables today, adding a 15-20 year lead-time just makes it laughable. Then another 30-40 years to turn a profit.

Nuclear is a technological dead-end economically. Perfect for niche applications like submarines, but not for the grid.

[1]: https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost...

[2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014...

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by liotier on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:18AM (#38000382)
Interesting Lazard study. First time I see such investment guys so optimistic about grid-scale storage beyond the currently supply-limited pumped hydro.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:05AM (#38000224)
The only way electricity is stored at the moment is using pumped hydro so. Regardless of the source.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by expertentipp on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:21AM (#37999534)
Lots of bad things have happened because of and since the previous "wir schaffen das".
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:27AM (#37999613)
Last time I checked, we actually did manage it, the last time I mean. Care to elavorate which bad things happened because of it? Because happening since is pointless, we have the war in Ukraine and Covid for example since then, and neither has anything to do with it.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:31AM (#37999679)
>Last time I checked, we actually did manage it, the last time I mean. Care to elavorate which bad things happened because of it?

I'd rather not get flagged.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:34AM (#37999712)
Ah, ok. So let me guess: Cologne attacks, serial raping of women, criminal clans? Just picking some BS talking points from top of my head.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:39AM (#37999780)
Let me guess, you're a male, right? Do you think such people[1] will be a net benefit to a functioning civilized society? You tell me.

It's funny that until 10-15 years ago there was no need for signs in public German swimming pools telling you you shouldn't grope females. I wonder what changed? /s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRgSB38NRBU

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:44AM (#37999862)
Ah, I totally forgot the swimmong pool scare of the summer of '23, thanks for reminding me!

I agree, armed border police having, if it was up to conservative politians, a mandatebto use force for illegal push bavks are propably not a net benefit for society.

By the way, you should be less on social media.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:55AM (#38000053)
>illegal push bavks

Since when is it illegal to stop people who don't have the right to enter a country? That's exactly the job of the border security and why you pay taxes for and why borders exist and why countries that defend their borders the best and are most selective with who they let in tend to be the safest and most desirable to live in.

When you board off the plane in Germany try to make a run for it and bypass the the passport control/customs area and see what happens. I assure you, in case you don't get shot, you'll be swiftly put down by force and arrested with guns pointed at your face. Why shouldn't the same strict rules apply to everyone else?

Do you have locks at your house, or do you let everyone in off the street because stopping them would be illegal according to your logic?

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:57AM (#38000098)
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:07AM (#38000249)
That's just the broken and outdated asylum system being abused by economic opportunists and people smugglers.

Cracking down on it would make people smuggling disappear over night and save many lives in the process.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:08PM (#38001200)
I just love people casually denying basic human rights...
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:26PM (#38001480)
It's not a human right to enter and live in whichever country you desire without a visa. Each country has the right to defend its borders, that's what the border police and the military is for.

Only if you can prove your life is in danger, then you're entitled to asylum in the first safe country you can reach, not 10 safe countries over in Sweden, Germany, UK, or whichever wealthy country you desire to live in once you throw away your passport because you're not from a county at war and you intentionally sink your boat so that the coast guard will be forced to pick you up.

That's how human rights work, everything else is just abusing the asylum systems for personal economic benefit.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:53PM (#38001871)
Asylum is a human right. You didn't even bother looking that up, did you?

Military wages war, and defends against other militaries. Border police doesn't do push backs.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:43PM (#38002578)
>Asylum is a human right.

It's not. It's only to those who qualify for asylum, but this system is so lax and poorly enforced that is abused by economic chancers, and not people ruining away from wars.

Look at the nationalities of those arriving form boats, 90% are not from war torn countries, they don't qualify for asylum.

Also, asylum means the first safe country you can reach, not your proffered EU country. To reach Germany you need to go through 4-8 safe countries which is where the asylum scam lies and why the system needs reformed.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:59PM (#38002809)
Now we are getting somewhere, maybe. You don't agree with the current asylum.policies? Fair enough, you are not alone and even the SPD chancelor favors harder measures (no suprise here, I'm totally in tje opposite camp). Then argue for reform. But don't start with denying people their basic right of seeking asylum, don't argue for illegal measures to be taken, and please, pleade, try to really research and understand the basic legal principles of what you discuss. Otherwise you just come across as a radical, borderline racist blowhard.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:18PM (#38003916)
You trying to frame me as radical right wing racist, just for telling you how the asylum system laws work in practice and why it's consistently being broken and abused, is in poor taste, as you don't understand how the asylum laws work but keep harping on a flawed ideology that's not based in any laws.

I repeat one last time then I'm out for good: asylum, by law, is only for those people fleeing war and persecution, not for everyone who wants to come to a nice EU country with a great welfare system, and the asylum applies to the first safe country you reach.

If you come to Germany while having crossed 4-10 safe countries you're basically breaking the asylum laws. Asylum means living in a safe country where your life is no longer in danger from war, not entitling you to living only in Germany/Sweden/UK...wherever YOU choose.

The current German system of "open borders for everyone, come to Germoney please" is not an asylum policy, it's just leftist political madness that's harming the welfare state and the housing market (Denmark is already hard on this), it's harming the EU stability (Brexit was driven by this and other countries are against it as well by voting right wing), it's harming the Schengen system (Austria refuses to let Romania and Bulgaria in due to these migration issues, plus border checks are being introduced all the time harming commuters) and it's harming the migrant entry point countries in EU like Italy and Greece.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by jansan on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:55AM (#38000047)
Did you notice that almost every store in Berlin has a security personnel at the entrance? It wasn't like this before, but I remember being really confused when I saw this in Paris in the early 2000s. What happened? Do you think Hans and Jürgen have broken bad?
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by expertentipp on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:27PM (#38001482)
The downgrade in everyday security is something they simply accepted as a compromise, just deal it and also stop romanticizing Hans and Jürgen.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by Manuel_D on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#38000849)
The new Year's Eve assaults were not BS: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s...

Not only that, denial of it appears to have been one of the instigating factors in launching far right parties to prominence.

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:04PM (#38001114)
There is a difference between ignoring them and seeimg that they were blown way, way out of proportion...

And wow, it was in 2015? Forgot that it was almost a decade ago... People really, really should be able to move on... Well, they tried, but the endangered, lawless swimming pool narrative didn't really catch on, did it?

Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by Manuel_D on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:35PM (#38001616)
It's totally reasonable to say that these incidents are not significant enough to change immigration policy. But the attacks were not "BS", and falsely claiming them as such a big part of what fueled the rise of AfD and other far right parties. Even if you don't care about veracity, I'm sure you don't want to help support those parties, right? That's why you shouldn't call these events BS.
Re:Germany to Pass Japan as Third-Largest Economy, Helped by... by hef19898 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:42PM (#38001698)
The attacks, few as they were, are not BS. What was made out of them was, is and always will be utter horse crap. What worries me is people, who believe that, pushing policy based on those believes.