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Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by pstuart on Saturday October 21, 2023 @02:53PM (#37969519)
Tell me again about how crypto is not a scam?
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by rabbits_2002 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @02:59PM (#37969565)
Thats the fun part, it is!
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:25PM (#37969790)
Crypto (currencies) are not a scam. These are currencies and like any other currency are subject to devaluation and abolition.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by creatonez on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:38PM (#37969890)
They are very unlike other currencies, in that almost all of them are rigged for a period of rapid hype-based growth followed by a deflationary apocalypse where late adopters are squeezed out by those who perpetuated the ponzi scheme (which is to say, nearly the entire community aside from Satoshi and maybe Vitalik Buterin)
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:49PM (#37969949)
> They are very unlike other currencies, in that almost all of them are rigged [...]

So you're actually agreeing with me, that crypto currencies are not a scam. The number of currencies is also irrelevant even in a more colloquial sense. What's more important is how much is really invested in a given currency and the bad tokens are a niche. Ponzi scheme (or just new) coins are usually for gamblers and not in broad use and are comparable to jettons in a casino. Are jettons a scam in that sense?

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by creatonez on Saturday October 21, 2023 @04:21PM (#37970130)
We should be alarmed about any money system that has the properties that give way to gambling and ponzi-like systems. I would not hesitate to criticize both the money system and the con artists who took advantage of it, when it's so clear that the money system's rules have such inevitable outcomes. I don't mind abolishing any of the money systems that turn out to be harmful and are pushed without broad sociopolitical consent.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:18AM (#37973239)
Our current money system has the properties that give way to gambling. You can't pretend that gambling didn't exist before crypto.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by anonymouskimmer on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:57PM (#37980772)
Very few people are swapping yen and euros trying to get rich from them.

The standard gambling that happens with "our current money system" can also happen with self-written IOUs. This kind of gambling isn't about the money, per se, whereas with crypto you get an additional kind of gambling on the currency itself.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Monday October 23, 2023 @04:36AM (#37983026)
For Yen and Euro it makes less sense since these are relatively stable, but for less stable currencies that is actually a thing. The definition of gambling you are talking about is built into our monetary system.

I give you the point that it is harder (not impossible) to enforce any regulations on these currencies. It's like cash in that sense, but it has easy access and there are plenty of options of cash, which is unlike regular cash.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by Avshalom on Saturday October 21, 2023 @06:10PM (#37970942)
No, the casino is the scam that's why the house always wins and just like cryptocurrencies as soon as you build one the incentives are to make it an even more predatory scam. That's why they're variously illegal or heavily regulated
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by Exoristos on Saturday October 21, 2023 @04:02PM (#37970022)
Sounds like pre–Civil War U.S. currency.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by creatonez on Saturday October 21, 2023 @04:34PM (#37970205)
Yes.... and it was a terrible system, not having a money system with any sort of democratic political controls on its supply and demand. Through a modern lens, we should view the thousands of years of gold coin currency as a human system that was ripe to cause artificial limitations and excesses of resource availability for populations that participated in the system. With a time machine, we should advise people of the past that a much better system -- clay tablets with a list of creditors and debtors, with regular debt cancellations/easements as needed to maintain stability -- had already been invented, possibly thousands of years before the invention of coins.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by mvdtnz on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:37PM (#37969882)
Funny thing about crypto enthusiasts is that they'll claim cryptocurrencies are currencies when it's convenient then claim they are "assets" or "a store of value" when it's not.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:51PM (#37969972)
Obvious strawman.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:58PM (#37969999)
> they'll claim cryptocurrencies are currencies when it's convenient then claim they are "assets" or "a store of value" when it's not.

It's been a while since I took an econ class, but aren't all currencies, by definition, assets / stores of value?

Edit: Oh, you mean they're only assets but don't meet other criteria to be currencies?

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by mvdtnz on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:55PM (#37970824)
Yeah, your edit. It's a common refrain among Bitcoiners when faced with the deficiencies of their scambucks.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:20AM (#37973246)
How is Bitcoin a scam for you. Tell me.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by mvdtnz on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:05PM (#37977637)
I didn't say Bitcoin is a scam. It's almost exclusively used for scams and other crimes, though.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by AnonCoward42 on Monday October 23, 2023 @04:30AM (#37982961)
You said "Bitcoiners" and "their scambucks" in one sentence.

Before eCommerce took off the internet was almost exclusively used for scams and arguably that is still the case even if not exclusively it's still a big part, so we should declare the internet a scam I suppose.

Disclaimer: I am not even heavily invested (in any sense). It's just a means to pay for stuff for me.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday October 21, 2023 @06:18PM (#37971001)
> aren't all currencies, by definition, assets / stores of value?

Yes and no. Modern currencies separate the medium of exchange and unit of account functions, on one hand, from the store of value and standard of deferred payment functions, on the other hand. Paper and deposit dollars are the former, Treasuries are the latter. Someone complaining about inflation eroding their cash under a mattress's value is literally using it wrong.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by injeolmi_love on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:12PM (#37970483)
There’s over 1.8 million crypto tokens. You can find one for any concept that’s been thought up.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by dewey on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:45PM (#37969934)
Searching HN for "insider trading", around 80% of the stories are about insider trading happening on Wall Street.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by dragontamer on Saturday October 21, 2023 @04:34PM (#37970203)
Insider trading is when an insider knows the true price better than you do and takes advantage of that by making buys/sells on the market without disclosing the insider information.

------

What happened here is a rugpull. Not insider trading. The coin was collapsing, but plenty of people figured out how to make money even in the collapse.

Rugpulls don't really happen in the regulated market. But they are a dime a dozen on cryptocoins.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by dewey on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:18PM (#37970532)
> Analysis suggests at least three Reddit moderators dumped thousands of dollars worth of Moons just minutes before the actual announcement

Sounds like they had...insider information?

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by Tao3300 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:14PM (#37970509)
Tell me again about how crypto is not a scam?
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday October 21, 2023 @06:10PM (#37970939)
> Searching HN for "insider trading", around 80% of the stories are about insider trading happening on Wall Street

Because most insider trading is trivial to catch. An insider trader has to act ex ante. That's difficult on multiple levels: acquisition of the information, predicting its effect and executing the trades all while evading capture. Detection, on the other hand, is ex post facto: find unusually profitable trades after the information has occurred. That's what the SEC does. To the extent insider traders aren't caught, it's because they failed to turn a profit.

Look at the people being caught insider trading; they're rarely professionals. Because professionals know how hard it is relative to the gains. Instead, it's mostly numpties who heard about an acquisition from their spouse or whatever.

With crypto, we have the tape. But linking the wallets to the numpties is hard. (Also fewer people care about the victims, let's be honest.) Imagine if this chain had real names attached to it. We'd have a predictable list of offenders to prosecute.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by fturst on Saturday October 21, 2023 @04:32PM (#37970190)
The Internet contains a lot of scams. Does that make the WWW, a scam? No. Same thing.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by alpaca128 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:14PM (#37970497)
The internet also contains countless legit websites & services and offers many ways to use it productively.

I think if blockchain projects offered a comparable value, people would have better ways to defend it than assuring everyone it's definitely not all a scam.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by smolder on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:20AM (#37973955)
I have seen good, dispassionate, defenses of blockchain tech pop up in the comments here, but this argument has played out many times and it probably wears on people.

Anyway, Namecoin seemed like a pretty nice use case, even if it didn't take off. Smart contracts seem like a good idea to me. Behind all the hype and idiotic money chasing behavior and criminality there are some niche but proven-useful technical innovations. And despite people throwing blockchain-everything at the wall to see what sticks for some time, there's still plenty of opportunity for new applications to emerge.

Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by hansvm on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:08PM (#37979531)
It's not the worst medium of exchange when the credit card oligopoly doesn't want PR risk or is a bit puritanical with an otherwise legitimate, legal, popular good or service. You (or some government) could probably build better or just legislate the equivalent of net neutrality on our payment processors, but we don't live in that world yet.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by yanderekko on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:07PM (#37970436)
Demand for an asset fell so its price dropped. Nothing scammy about this.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by FireBeyond on Saturday October 21, 2023 @05:13PM (#37970496)
I'm not sure if you're intentionally trying to miss the point - the scam is that people who knew that demand for the asset was about to crater - because they were about to crater it, by shutting it down, extracted their investment knowing that others would not be able to.
Re:Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program... by yanderekko on Saturday October 21, 2023 @06:29PM (#37971067)
The reddit moderators who cashed out were not the ones who were shutting down the service. They simply had insider information that allowed them to move first with this information.