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Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by jsight on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:43PM (#37783323)
Yeah, I'm noticing the same thing. I have a lot of questions that could be Stackoverflow questions.

But to do that, I'd have to make sure there are no duplicates and frame the question with every appropriate detail.

Or, I could just have a quick conv with the AI. Sure, it'll get some things wrong, but so will SO answers. :) And it is amazing at how clarifying it can be. Even the wrong answers are sometimes a clue that the questions themselves are a little off.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by menacingly on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:03PM (#37783589)
I'm trying to think of a worse outcome for a QA site than the anxiety a lot of people need to overcome to post to SO.

I'd like numbers on what % of questions are scolded for having been asked

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by KMag on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:34PM (#37783951)
I'd also love to see the % of scoldings that miss an important subtle difference in the questions being asked.
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by sensanaty on Thursday October 05, 2023 @05:15PM (#37784395)
I've literally never had a SO question deleted/downvoted/any of the other stuff.

Just think of a genuinely good question and show you've done a modicum of research and people will happily reply to it

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by seanthemon on Thursday October 05, 2023 @05:54PM (#37784767)
Marked as duplicate, use the search next time won't you??
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by bobsmooth on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:30PM (#37785087)
How can you do research if you don't know what you don't know?
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by sensanaty on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:50PM (#37785234)
How do you expect anyone to help you if you don't know what to ask? You have to at least have a starting point, and that's usually more than enough on SO.

stackoverflow.com/users/8610114/sensanaty

Seriously just check out questions I've asked on SO. They're nothing groundbreaking, a lot of them are pretty beginner/basic questions, yet I've never really had adverse reactions to any one of my questions. Some go unanswered sure, and I might have one or two marked as dupes (they are more or less) but if you've ever browser the "new" portion of the site it's inundated with hudreds of shitty, low effort questions, so it's understandable.

SO is also an excellent jumping off point for figuring it out yourself. I've had dozens of times where I figured out a solution midway through typing a question, since you have to make good quality questions there in the first place.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by menacingly on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:44PM (#37785198)
I love the profoundly flawed "you should have searched" logic. Nearly everyone who got there did so because a google search failed. The first step in this process _is_ a search.

You're being whined at for not knowing the very specific incantation which will summon the results. Which, if you knew, you likely wouldn't need to ask anyway.

"You're stupid and your question is stupid. I forbid answers. I will keep it up and nofollow all of the scalped resources it links to in the hopes others can come here and benefit from this lack of answer"

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by jsight on Friday October 06, 2023 @05:35PM (#37796739)
I agree with you, but my first step in doing a modicum of research on a new subject is to ask questions. I can ask the most basic questions to chatgpt and usually get pointed in the right direction.

Which is my point. ChatGPT is the most basic modicum of research and it is excellent for that. But it also can do a lot more.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by sublinear on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:32PM (#37785093)
The next iteration of chat bot can't possibly avoid being this way either.

Collaboration on writing a better question is the only way its answers could get to the next level and customized for your specific use case. I'm imagining it spinning up a generated SO clone for you to browse and scolding you just the same (but at least giving you a decent link), or at least asking why an answer you found isn't good enough.

The way collaborating with AI works now is too wordy and error prone. You don't know what you don't know. Chat bots still don't talk back much and that's a problem.

When we get to this level of AI, maybe some people will finally understand that getting your expectations broken is not a form of hostile communication.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by jsight on Friday October 06, 2023 @05:36PM (#37796748)
I remember arguing about this and boat programming.
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by blibble on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:16PM (#37783742)
this works for the now as there was plenty of data to parasitise, sorry, train from

technology moves on

in 2030, when stackoverflow have folded due to lack of visitors, and all new data on new libraries/APIs are locked up beyond OpenAI's reach

how useful is the AI going to be?

the whole thing sows the seeds of its own destruction

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by JieJie on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:04PM (#37784869)
I hear what you are saying. What I think that what you're missing is that subsequent conversations with AI, where humans and AI solve problems together, is what the next generation of AI is going to be trained on. That data is being collected every time someone interacts with a chatbot, which is why they are being provided — so many of them - as a free service.

It is, as before: if the service is free, you are the product.

That being said, I think that to the extent AI is an actually helpful product, as opposed to social media, public forums, or free video hosting, the tradeoff is way more worthwhile. In my most humble opinion. I'm sure your calculus will lead to different outcomes.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by blibble on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:07PM (#37784898)
only in very rare cases will the data from the interaction actually be useful for training, simply because the final version is rarely supplied to it

yes, it's asked to produce something, but it won't see the result after substantial effort required to actually make it work

the interaction is not going to be nearly enough to produce useful training data to replace e.g. stackoverflow

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by visarga on Friday October 06, 2023 @06:52AM (#37789094)
> if the service is free, you are the product

and if GPTBot can reach your site, you are the product, they would make you their product even if you don't use their free service

but now they are not allowed to complain when others train models on GPT-4 data, they can become someone else's product too - see Orca, TinyStories and Phi-1.5

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by jncfhnb on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:26PM (#37785052)
Probably still very useful
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by bobsmooth on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:31PM (#37785088)
>in 2030, when stackoverflow have folded due to lack of visitors, and all new data on new libraries/APIs are locked up beyond OpenAI's reach

Then I download the docs and feed it into the LLM I have running locally.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by aperrien on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:38PM (#37785141)
Even open source API's?
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by blibble on Thursday October 05, 2023 @06:40PM (#37785161)
what open source?

if the fair use lawsuit succeeds and copyright protection over open source is essentially terminated: what companies are going to open source anything?

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by dw_arthur on Thursday October 05, 2023 @07:40PM (#37785604)
Google/OpenAI or whoever will start paying experts to seed these systems with answers. Imagine paying twenty infectious disease experts to interact with your LLM for 6 months. That's chump change for one of these companies and they will be able to charge big bucks for access to the LLM.
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by mistrial9 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @08:17PM (#37785863)
MSFT / Bill Gates is famous for doing exactly this, except as "tiger teams" to make patents. This is the next round of that.
Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by tpm on Friday October 06, 2023 @02:42AM (#37787816)
> in 2030, when stackoverflow have folded due to lack of visitors, and all new data on new libraries/APIs are locked up beyond OpenAI's reach

> how useful is the AI going to be?

In 2030 the AI can go and and search for the answer itself, by installing the environment in a container and trying to find a solution. It's something that is in some way possible even now, but probably not practical yet.

Re:I’m not a programmer, and I used AI to build my first bot by visarga on Friday October 06, 2023 @06:51AM (#37789086)
> this works for the now as there was plenty of data to parasitise, sorry, train from

>> parasitise

What else is data for?