Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this.
So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power???
"Open Standards" - There is no reason that your Mac or iPhone should only work with other Apple products through closed and proprietary standards. With adoption of open standards, all devices (irrespective of their manufacturer) can offer a decent integrated experience.
What’s the pairing process like? Mine is just - sign into iCloud and my AirPods show up.
Find a real argument if you want to waste our time. Right now you are embarrassing the constituent of reasonable and sensible Apple users who might otherwise advocate for middle-ground.
1. Your Bluetooth radio determines how many simultaneous connections you get. It is at least 2 on Bluetooth 4.0+.
2. You are conflating cloud pairing (Apple's feature) with multipoint pairing (everyone's feature). They coexist.
3. 8 devices is generally the hard limit on all consumer Bluetooth radios, from the iPhone to Nintendo Switch.
Furthermore, Apple's integrated solution quite literally depends on the Open standard of Bluetooth to operate. Whether or not you consider it a bad thing, quite obviously the integration and open solution both work fine alongside one another.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315
Yes and the phone also depends on standards when it comes to electricity. The fact is that Apple’s work on top of the standard provide a more robust more user friendly implementation.
This shows the power of an integrated solution. Apple released a better way to pair Bluetooth headphones with their devices and at the same time got the better method implemented across their computers, phones, tablets, watches and set top boxes.
That’s something you couldn’t do with an open standard as quickly.
I pair my headphones to one device that I’m signed into and they automatically get recognized by all my devices.
We have been saying this for days, across 30 fucking comments in this godforsaken chain, but you do not listen. Let me spell it out. If you ignore me this time, I won't bother responding.
You could do this with an Open Standard, just as quickly. This technology relies on Bluetooth MAC addresses and iCloud file sync, not fairy dust.*
With some people, I have no idea where they fall on the spectrum of self-serious argumentation. I usually don't even care; pretty much all feedback is valuable on a forum like this. When people preclude good-faith discussion around Apple hardware with weaksauce rhetoric though, it's pretty obvious that they're putting their emotions first. I'll field any discussion around Apple and their altruism, but I won't accept petty greed or speculation as a defense. They're an opaque company that deserves the scrutiny they recieve, regardless of the unofficial rationale people roll out.
This problem isn't specific to Apple hardware, or really the tech industry as a whole. Every field has it's pundits; you can usually identify them when they use weak rhetoric and avoid directly addressing your argument. It's still especially bad with Apple technology though, since so little of it is documented well enough to definitively refute any claim. You can't corroborate behavior on your iPhone with source code, or visit the iCloud datacenters to ensure everything is being handled with white gloves. People who know the platform well usually know that there is no definitive answer, and inflammatory riff-raff discussions float to the top.
Luckily I don’t have to because I use an integrated solution where the hardware, software and OS are made by the same company.
We aren’t talking about “simultaneous” connections we are talking about switching between them.
I’m not “confusing” anything. I’m saying that Apple’s integrated solution provides a better user experience. No one cares about how it’s done .
Thanks for making my point for me.
> No one cares about how it’s done .
Some markets do: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...
Next though, you'll tell me that those democratically elected officials aren't "people", and are more profit-motivated than a business. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose.
> Next though, you'll tell me that those democratically elected officials aren't "people", and are more profit-motivated than a business. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose
It’s cute that you think politicians represent “the people” considering how PACs work or that you think they are “democratically” elected considering how gerrymandered most districts are.
Then you got to consider how each state has an equal number of senators regardless of population.
Again, why do you? Apple's products have worked just fine implimenting open standards (eg. HTML, TLS, AES, RSA, etc.). You could easily argue that the iPhone wouldn't be popular without open standards like Bluetooth and the Internet.
> It’s cute that you think politicians represent “the people”
Does the unregulated market represent it any better? I'd rather let gerrymandered electors regulate the market than allow the market to regulate itself.
Well, if I have a choice between a corporation - which I can choose not to support and a government with guns and the ability to take away my rights by force having power, I’ll choose private corporations every time.
To have a choice in the first place, you can't participate in a regulated market. Right now, you're complaining that your favorite player can't "win" a game of Blackjack by overruling the dealer. I don't know what to tell you; those are the rules of the game. Apple can go play their Calvinball economy in some other developing market, and so can you.
See? Freedom of choice.
I, as a user (and a vim-user, may I add), would like it very much if all the software and hardware in the world would be fully open, customizable, community-maintained. I, as a manufacturer, am less keen on that idea. So, to make it happen, every manufacturer has to be forced to make that happen. So, literally, we are stepping farther from the open market and killing some personal freedom under a promise of a bright happy future.
And the realness of that promise is as questionable, as the means necessary to achieve the goal. As I've said, personally, I'm very excited about that promise. But it really is just a promise, and if it can be fulfilled is a very, very big question.
Ultimately, nobody really sells hardware or software. Everybody sells user-experience. It is very obvious in Apple's case, but it is always true. It's easy to forget that when you are choosing the cheapest light bulbs on the market, because the user-experience of having electric light in your house has been sold to you so long ago, there are so many basically identical products that the only apparent difference to you is the price. Now you perceive GPUs (or bluetooth, or whatever) as light bulbs. But at some point selling a GPU or a light bulb was quite similar to selling a novel iSomething. The seller had to explain to you, not so much what iSomething is, but how iSomething makes your life better. And if the technology that makes this promise of the user-experience a reality is hardware, software or just exceptional marketing — really is just details.
So, as much as I hate that my fitness-watch is basically a spying device and I don't even own the data it produces (and I mean, I really hate that), I don't feel like forcing Garmin to open-source the firmware is the right thing to do. Maybe I would support some more forceful moves to make the generated data my property, but even here the line is blurry. But forcing them (and better think: you, as a manufacturer) to make something other than you wanted to make — …why the fuck should I? Who decides what is that common standard I don't want in my product, but I have to, to be legally allowed to sell that? I think, I just like the idea of personal freedom a bit too much to support that. I'd much prefer Garmin just losing to competition that chooses open firmware, than legally forcing them to produce anything they didn't want to produce.
No, we are democratically balancing consumer rights with the rights of entrepreneurs to make money. Consumers need the right to repair and not be limited with closed, proprietary standards. That entrepreneurs may take take a slight hit on their profit due to this is acceptable as protecting the consumer enhances the well being of the overall society that both entrepreneurs and the consumers are part of. (And note that right to repair and open standards can also foster more competition in the "free market" and reduce monopolistic abuses - so it is really a win-win for both sides).
See Article 16 - Freedom to conduct a business - http://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/16-freedom-conduc... and the article The 16th of all EU-r rights: the right to conduct a business and how the Charter contributes - https://www.eurac.edu/en/blogs/eureka/the-16th-of-all-eu-r-r... - for the European perspective of it.
Right. By stepping farther from the open market and killing some personal freedom. (Also, word "democratically" is absolutely meaningless in this context, but that's the usual mode it is used in in western politics.)
No, it isn't. When a law / regulation / policy is made all stakeholders are consulted and their views sought on it. Consumers are one of the stakeholders in context of what we are talking about. Politicians than work out a compromise that balances everyone's concerns. That's basically democracy at work.
Perhaps that's the wrong question. Perhaps "making my everyday experience better as a customer" is not the be all end all.
Maybe that will cause the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” to happen.
I know, the point you are trying to make is buried beneath somewhere but it is really hard to make out. All I see is pettiness. So sad.
Perhaps you should ask the inverse - how good would your experience with Apple be, if there were no open standards paid for by someone else, and fought for by someone else?
You wouldn't even have GPS and navigation. You would not have HTML or the open web. Before we fought for video codecs compatibility you could not even get a video that was recorded on a Device A to reliably play on Device B. The phone would be almost useless.
The people that argue this, they only take from the commons and never give back.
And every Mac geek knew how to work around it either via free third party software or just using AppleScript
https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-s...
Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.
https://thisdayintechhistory.com/12/06/apple-sues-over-quick...
Someone doesn’t know their history…
Also, the look and feel lawsuit happened before Jobs came back and within a few months after he came back, he settled all of the claims.
Your memory is spotty
You can be sued for anything, whether true or not. In the court, it must be proven that you did what you are sued for. So it is either proven, or not, and then the court issues the verdict. If it is not, like in Microsoft's case, they are still innocent. It does not matter whether it was impossible to prove or Apple stopped pursing the case; the court said they are guilty. If you continue say they did it, it is a defamation.
Even without regarding the above, the case was really shaky. Microsoft using the same vendor through a chain (via Intel) as Apple does not mean they are "stealing". That vendor might learn something from working with them, but that does not imply what you said. Nevermind, that Video for Windows had somewhat different scope (video subsystem), than Quicktime (multimedia subsystem). For Apple, it was simply a negotiation card.
Look & feel lawsuit was literally the oh noes, they do similar thing as we do case.
Btw, the result was that "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law].."
If you want to know how it looks when Microsoft did stole something, look at Stacker. Entirely different evidence, entirely different result, including entirely punishment.
https://www.theregister.com/1998/10/29/microsoft_paid_apple_...
Your batting average isn’t too high on this topic.
Also, it is not an user friendly solution. Do you know, how it really worked? Mac users were sharing QT pro keys. Most had zero interest in the pro features, except full screen playback.
It took Apple almost two decades to fix this.
And your previous comments about the history of Apple makes me think that your memory or experience during that time is spotty.
But it is already established in this thread by others, that you have your own, RDF-like experience of what happened; no point in trying to discuss any further.
I actually used it shortly after it was introduced.
So what video were you playing on Windows around the time that QT was introduced?
Do you know what demo was on the QT 3.5 disk that Apple sent out?
Your “facts” are so wrong that you couldn’t have possible been working with Macs when these events occurred.
Large companies routinely buy out startups, kill their products, and absorbs the teams.
You really think a little startup is going to be able to do hardware at scale?
Was it big bad Apple that killed all of those phones or maybe it is just consumers made a choice using their own free will?
You really think that the startups didn’t have “being bought by a big company” as an exit strategy in the first place?
Out of all the companies that YC has funded (1000+) only six have ever gone public.
Were all the little companies that Apple acquired to integrate into their phone in an alternate universe going to create a phone?
Spoiler: it isn't.
I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life.
And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it would endure that I don’t ever have any little Scarface’s
On the phone side, the day that Apple releases a new version of iOS, it’s immediately available worldwide for every iPhone that was introduced in the last four years. Is the same true for Android devices?
Perhaps with Asahi Linux they could. But even then, support isn't great.
The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place.
And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware.
It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot.
If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.
And it shouldn’t be the company’s responsibility that made the hardware to make drivers and they should depend on who to do it then?
This is also why the current vertically integrated Apple is able to write good drivers: it isn't an isolated hardware manufacturer writing a driver. Because it's all one company, the OS team can be involved with driver development.
The solution for everyone would be to simply publish the hardware spec such that Apple, Microsoft, and Linux devs are able to write their own drivers.
The notion that hardware specs must be kept secret (because driver development is integrated with hardware development) is harming everyone, except the select few who have their own seats in the backroom.
Vertical integration is creating the very problem that you see Apple solving with vertical integration. Unfortunately, Apple is solving it exclusively for Apple, while hanging everyone else out to dry.
This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends.
You really think that Linux developers would know how to squeeze better performance out of Nvidia hardware than the Nvidia even with the design specs? Nvidia has the foremost experts in designing GPUs and software around it (Cuda).
The software and the hardware teams know the intricacies of their hardware better than anyone and they work in concert to design a better product.
How long would it take the hypothetical Apple Hardware company to release products that the hypothetical Apple Software company wrote drivers for if they were split up?
Could the new Apple hardware company say release the AirPods that paired seamlessly with multiple products just by pairing with one device signed into your account and release a new version of MacOS, iOS, TvOS, etc at the same time? Apple, Google and even AWS (in the server space) design hardware and processors in tandem with their software teams. They don’t just throw designs over the fence with documentation.
> This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends.
That’s a poor excuse. The fact is that Google is just a shitty platform caretaker. Microsoft has the same business model where they make the OS and license it to OEMs yet they support hardware for years if not decades.
Google doesn’t support its own phones as long as Apple. There is no excuse.
Yes. Even more importantly, they would be able to keep it stable alongside Mesa and Wayland/Xorg updates.
> Nvidia has the foremost experts in designing GPUs and software around it (Cuda).
And breaking up the company wouldn't make those people disappear! On the contrary, it would liberate their work. They would suddenly be free to start making CUDA compatible with AMDGPU! It would be wonderful.
Even if those people kept their work closed-source, just having an open hardware spec would do wonders for nouveau development. Last I checked, nouveau can't even set the GPU clock speed!
> Google doesn’t support its own phones as long as Apple. There is no excuse.
And that's my entire point! Google is bad at handling this responsibility, so let's take it off their hands! The reality is that Google doesn't want us to, because long term support is bad for their bottom-line!
The chip designers at NVidia work alongside the software people iteratively. They don’t just design the perfect chip and throw it over the fence.
Cuda isn’t just great (I’m not in that space, it might suck. I honestly don’t know) software that could be ported to any architecture. Cuda is written to work on a specific architecture both the hardware and the software inform each other.
Plainly not true. Some are better hardware/quality wise. All are better when it comes to freedom with what you can actually do with the device.
Why would you doubt there are better options? The whole thing about the PC market is it has a much greater diversity of choices. It's silly to think Apple simply makes the best machine for a price point out of all available PC and Mac models.
Was this the best you could do - worse performance, loud, poor battery life, poor display, poor audio?
The very first review I found
https://www.theverge.com/23674395/dell-xps-13-2022-intel-rev...
I’ll do the bottom line up front
In the past, the XPS 13 was a hands-down contender for the best laptop on the market. But the Apple-silicon MacBook has since barrelled onto the scene, and it wipes the floor with most of the ultraportable Windows laptops that cross my desk on a daily basis. This XPS is no exception. Compared to the M2 MacBook Air, battery life is worse. Benchmark performance is worse. Screen, while good, is worse. Port selection is worse.
And the rest.
So anyway, I’ve been using the regular XPS 13 for the past few weeks. And, like, it’s fine. It’s just fine. It’s worse than its 2020 predecessor in some ways and better in others. It continues to bring some of the best build quality in the 13-inch space. The display is fine. The speakers are fine. There’s an off-purple color option! It’s certainly one of the best Windows laptops you can buy, and it also doesn’t come close to the performance or efficiency that today’s MacBooks can provide, which says a thing or two about the current state of the Windows laptop space.
And the resolution is worse
Specifically, you’re limited to a 1920 x 1200 60Hz IPS panel
A similarly configured M2 MacBook Air is currently selling for $1,699, which makes Dell’s pricing attractive — though the performance benefits Apple delivers for that extra price aren’t insignificant, as we’ll soon discuss.
One thing to note about the XPS 13, though — the fans get going very easily. They were audible with a couple Chrome tabs and Slack open
Speaking of things that have improved: battery life. I averaged six hours and 42 minutes of consistent use around
Go look at some of the Asus models than if you think an XPS can't compete. Weighed less than a macbook air, more port including ethernet (via a HDMI port), something like 21 hours of battery life, weight was slightly under a pound IIRC.
There's plenty of other models/companies.
The biggest benefit? It's not Apple locking you into their ridiculous ecosystem. But I suspect you're fine with that. Pretty funny in another comment you talk about governments restricting geeks, yet you advocated for the most locked down nannyed device you can hand over money to buy.
- 16 hours battery life
- fanless
- doesn’t scorch my nuts
- performance?
- a decent display
- and doesn’t weigh a ton?
So please tell me how the Mac keeps you from running the software you want.
But you named how great the objectively shitty Dell is.
You’ve already struck out with the Dell, care to try again with Asus? Can you cite a review of an Asus that compares?
Even though the Dell sucks in every dimension, at least you have “freeduhm”
Again, it's ridiculous to think Apple makes the very best lightweight powerful laptop given how diverse the PC market is. You're really durnk on that Apple kool-aid huh.
I didn't strike out with Dell at all. You found one review of one model and then exaggerated it.
You're the exact type of person that required coining the concept of an apple reality distortion field.
The problem here is you're addicted to the Apple kool-aid and will bend over backwards to deny any non Apple product could be superior.
Yet you can’t seem to find the magical XPS 13 and cite a review?
Did your “research” tell you that by every objective measure it’s worse? The resolution is four times worse, the battery is three times worse, it’s loud, it’s slow.
Here is the review of the Asus B series. The newest one I could find. The contemporary MacBook Air at the time which was better in every way came out in late 2020 and was cheaper.
Again from the Verge and it’s the nearest one I could find..
https://www.theverge.com/22239215/asus-expertbook-b9450-revi...
Just make sure you know what you’re getting — because the low-powered processor and deafening fans certainly aren’t ideal for everyone.
but potential buyers should be aware that the processor is mostly suitable for basic office tasks. More on that in a bit.
And it’s even worse than the Dell XPS 13 that you were bragging about.
The Core i7-10510U is a four-core processor that’s significantly lower-powered than the chips you’ll see in the best laptops on the market like the Dell XPS 13. It’s far from a workhorse.
So it’s slower, hotter, louder, with worse graphics and lower battery life.
I'm not putting any more effort into replying to you, other than typing in the reply box. Your point is asinine IMO, and I'm not interested in doing research to support what I already know, to someone who would bend over backwards to deny anything presented to them.
And that's the thing. You're going to believe whatever you want to believe, because Apple is the entity you worship religiously.
What exactly did I “lie” about? Were the quotes from the Verge inaccurate? What did I over exaggerate?
You have presented nothing. No websites, no reviews, no model numbers.
You said you “researched” your purchase before you bought the your laptop. What websites did you do your research at?
This is what evidence looks like since you haven’t posted a single link.
Just post a citation. It just needs to start with https://
Or if that’s too much trouble , which Dell XPS 13 do you have that has great battery life, performance, cooling, fanless and a decent screen resolution?
I’ve told you exactly what I have - a MacBook M2 air with 16GB RAM and a 1TB drive.
You can find models that compete with Macbook air on the vendor homepages.It's truly ridiculous to think Your Mac is the top of the top tier laptops available when it comes to balancing performance and battery. Believe whatever you want to buddy.
Markets Apple decided weren't worth their time.
There was a time when PCs started having vastly better graphics cards, and Adobe started prioritizing development for PCs, but still graphic designers were buying Apple because 'it's what creatives use'.
Creatives buying Apple has always been mostly a North American phenomen, in Europe Apple only started being market relevant after the NeXT reverse acquisition, with iPod and iMacs rescuing it from insolvency.
Not everyone can buy a Bentley.
Again, we are getting back to the advantage of an integrated solution.
Most Android aficionados think that the Pixels are the best Android phones - another integrated product
The reason Apple products are more popular in the US is partially because people in the US have higher incomes and in the US, because if 0% interest payment plans and carrier subsidies, they are more affordable.
When people can, they buy the integrated product instead of worrying about some theoretical “freedoms” or running Linux on the Apple Pencil
Everything you've just said above is nonsense. People in the US have significantly lower incomes on average then most other western countries. You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. At all. Yet you feel the need to insert yourself into every conversation.
I won't be replying to you again, and by gods how I wish HN had a block function for people like you.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...
You mean people like me who have facts on their side?
The US might have the 5th highest income, but I said people in the US don't have higher incomes than other western countries on average.
The US has a crazy skewed income disparity. It's an extreme minority making high incomes, and it certainly doesn't support your rather silly argument.
No, the reason people in the US have much more of an Apple fixation than other countries is because Apple is seen as an elite/luxury item, and due to cultural reasons everyone wants to be seen as being able to afford/own that, even when there is no truth to it. Same reason some people pay ridiculous amounts for Balenciaga t-shirts.
OK, now I'm done.
Again, you were wrong unless you can find a better citation. Because as of now, you have provided…nothing
> No, the reason people in the US have much more of an Apple fixation than other countries is because Apple is seen as an elite/luxury item,
Geeks just can’t stand the fact that when given the choice and have the ability, choose Apple devices and don’t care about running Linux on the Apple Pencil.
Can you name one country where higher income individuals don’t overwhelmingly by iPhones? It’s definitely true in China - the largest country in the world
I'm in the UK, and working in IT, I can assure you that everyone in my team can afford and iPhone.
Only one does.
The cashier at the supermarket have them, you can see them in the back pockets of folks stacking shelves. It's not a device that requires people to be wealthy to own, just a desire.
"Not being Apple" was a very major part of my choice to buy a Windows laptop.
Some other consumers share my opinion of Apple.
>So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power???
Having open standards is not "giving the government more power".
There is precedent for this idea, in 1948 the Supreme Court forced the film studios to give up exhibition (theaters) with the paramount decision. This enabled the rise of independent film, and audiences benefited from more choice.
If you try to do this legislatively the Apples and the NVidias of the world will hire an army of lobbyists and storm Capitol Hill. But it might be to their benefit. After the breakup of Standard Oil, John Rockefeller became richer because competition forced out the less efficient portions of his old business from the market.
It’s true that it could temporarily degrade the user experience of some people, but that’s a small price to pay. People who give up liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.