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Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by samcheng on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:24PM (#37269056)
I doubt it's about COVID now. The government has really ruined China's "brand" internationally.

1. You need an onerous-to-obtain visa to visit. There is no visa exemption.

2. Banking is a total pain for a foreigner. Many places only accept Alipay or Wechat, which require a Chinese bank account. Cash doesn't work well either, because the largest denomination is tiny.

3. Many US-China flights were canceled in the pandemic and never restarted afterwards. As a result, flights to China are expensive.

4. The Western apps are commonly blocked in China, and the local apps don't have an English translation. Your smartphone is a lot less useful in China.

5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage.

6. Lots of reports of hostile behavior toward westerners...

The list could go on. There's a reason e.g. Japanese tourism is booming!

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by andsoitis on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:37PM (#37269121)
> 5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage.

Even Hong Kong, these days.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by throwaway1777 on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:27PM (#37269076)
Perfect list. Sums it up completely
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by zeagle on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:43PM (#37269162)
7. I have no desire to be a political prisoner abducted to leverage a concession from the west. Same reason I would avoid Russia, North Korea, or probably areas of Mexico with cartels. See Michael Spavor, Michael Kovrig, and Brit Gringer.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by samcheng on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:49PM (#37269205)
I doubt they would do that to an average schmuck like me, but the fact that it's a common consideration shows how far the Chinese government has fallen in the international public's perception.

It's a shame, too. China has some really great cultural sites, substantial natural beauty, cosmopolitan cities, and excellent and varied cuisine. It would be a great tourist destination under a different government.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:30PM (#37269410)
It's not a legitimate consideration though.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by samcheng on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:40PM (#37269466)
You're right; the risk of abduction is vanishingly small, even if many people are terrified of the power of the Chinese government. I'll replace "legitimate" with "common" in my comment.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Friday August 25, 2023 @11:00PM (#37269570)
Common consideration would be more accurate, I agree. That said, I think it's a very silly consideration regardless of how frequently it's considered.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by mensetmanusman on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:55PM (#37269553)
A work colleague checked their phone when a protest happened a block away and was then interrogated on the weekend for 10 hours by state police.

This is average schmuk stuff in China.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:57PM (#37269559)
This is a singular anecdotal experience. There are 1.4 billion people in China, most never experiencing anything like that in their lifetime.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by emptysongglass on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:47AM (#37270678)
People aren't going to KubeCon China because of being harassed by minders. This is not an isolated case. It is pervasive and it is chilling.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:27AM (#37272694)
It's not pervasive. Incredible claims require evidence, which you have none. If anecdotal evidence is enough, dozens of people I know go to China with zero issues regularly. Many people we know live there with zero issues. There's 1.4 billion people, logistically what got are saying is not feasible for a country that size. It's nonsense.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by mensetmanusman on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:49AM (#37272900)
Western travelers would fit more within the 10% or so of China with total wealth in the $100-$1,000k range.

These are the people with the means to challenge the power structure, and they are watched more closely.

If someone in this wealth range holds up a blank piece of paper, they may end up in jail.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Saturday August 26, 2023 @01:20PM (#37274800)
Holding up a blank piece of paper is a completely different scenario and topic! We are talking about normal, everyday travel for business and recreation. If you go there and do something taboo, something that's clearly intended to cause trouble, then what do you expect?

With any foreign country you should understand their cultural norms and laws. Your own ignorance is a valid consideration for travel, not being arrested as a political prisoner. You won't get in any trouble as a tourist or business person 99% of the time.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by super_flanker on Saturday August 26, 2023 @02:24PM (#37275467)
> You won't get in any trouble as a tourist or business person 99% of the time.

So there is 1% chance; and why would I take even 1% chance of getting into troubled country?

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by mensetmanusman on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:24PM (#37275999)
The point is that it is easy to accidentally do something taboo for a random person…
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by zeagle on Friday August 25, 2023 @11:34PM (#37269730)
Yeah, no. I gave you two specific, recent examples of Canadians who were in China and went through this due to Whanzhou Meng being considered for extradition to the USA while in Canada. And while she was living in her mansion they were in jail. As a Canadian the other frustration is this was really a US-China spat.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by MissingAFew on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:30PM (#37269408)
This is absolute insanity; fear mongering.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by edgineer on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:54PM (#37269229)
You can receive funds to an Alipay account in yuan without having a Chinese bank account. Thus services like Swapsy exist to coordinate pairs of private transactions, where the other party sends USD through Zelle or similar.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by parineum on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:32PM (#37269419)
Sounds less than legal.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by tenpies on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:34PM (#37269429)
In Canada's case, you also had the CCP essentially kidnap two random Canadians who happened to be in China as retaliation for Canada's cooperation in exercising a US warrant against a Chinese national[1].

Good luck getting any Canadian that is not a dual citizen with China to visit, especially because CCP tyranny combined with Trudeau's incompetence cost these two people almost 3 years of their lives in Chinese detention.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by Dr_Birdbrain on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:41AM (#37271136)
Just want to be pedantic and point out there is no such thing as a Canadian that is a dial citizen with China. China does not allow dual citizenship.
Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by umeshunni on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:43PM (#37269485)
I went to China earlier this year.

1. My visa took less than a week. In SF, where the consulate is busier than usual.

2. This is actually better than the last time I was there in 2019. Alipay now supports international credit cards.

3. Very true. Direct flights are rare.

4. It's annoying that even Gmail etc are blocked. VPNs that worked pre-Covid don't work anymore. The only thing that reliably worked was my roaming T-Mobile connection (but slow...)

5. This was always the case at my previous employer. We were issued temporary Chromebooks that were wiped after we returned. This time, I was extra careful and took a burner phone and left my personal phone off till I got to HK.

Re:Why fewer university students are studying Mandarin by porknubbins on Friday August 25, 2023 @11:05PM (#37269597)
How about China running concentration camps in Xinjiang, making China tourism morally similar to visiting Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.