News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by kranke155 on Friday August 25, 2023 @05:05PM (#37267038)
Advertising is not a product
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by goodpoint on Friday August 25, 2023 @05:39PM (#37267351)
If anything it's an antiproduct.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by prox on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:04AM (#37270480)
“It’s lying for money.” - my marketing teacher
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by kibwen on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:10AM (#37272558)
Try "socially acceptable brainwashing".
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by paulmd on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:40AM (#37270630)
inverse product
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by throwaway5959 on Friday August 25, 2023 @07:34PM (#37268372)
gestures broadly at advertising everywhere

OK, I’ll bite, then what is it?

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by throwaway14356 on Friday August 25, 2023 @08:26PM (#37268699)
product information
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by justinclift on Friday August 25, 2023 @08:48PM (#37268838)
Infectious attention cancer?
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by Const-me on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:07PM (#37268961)
Infinite money glitch for big tech, with dramatic externalities pushed to non-consenting general population.

These externalities include death of traditional media, extreme levels of political polarization, and climbing suicide rate of teenagers, girls in particular. These things are caused in very large part by the big tech companies maximizing consumption of ads, and efficiency of ads targeting.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by bryan_w on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:35PM (#37269437)
> death of traditional media

Well if adverting is so bad, and old media relied on advertising, Tech was doing the world a favor by starving them out.

We should be thanking Google for exposing the corruption that was the old media advertising empire

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by krapp on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:46PM (#37269504)
As bad as advertising in old media was, at least it wasn't a platform of targeted surveillance and psychological manipulation. An advertisement was just an advertisement, you could pay attention to it or not, and your attention if it was noted at all was only noted in aggregate. Your radio or tv didn't know who you are, know where you live, develop complex behavioral profiles on you, record all of your browsing, shopping and communication data, listen in on your with microphones or watch you with cameras.

Google didn't expose the corruption of old media, rather it supplanted it with even deeper and more insidious corruption.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by sellmesoap on Saturday August 26, 2023 @12:08AM (#37269862)
I wouldn't underestimate the psychological manipulation of old media, but you're right there's a whole industry around gathering and leveraging metrics, it still feels primitive but my imagination always wanders into how you can tie data points together. Maybe I'm on the wrong side of the fence.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by hedora on Friday August 25, 2023 @11:20PM (#37269669)
The article is about behavioral advertising, which was not feasible with old media technologies.

The problem isn’t the ads. The problem is the ad targeting.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by JohnFen on Monday August 28, 2023 @11:07AM (#37295280)
> We should be thanking Google for exposing the corruption that was the old media advertising empire

But they (and the rest of the industry) have replaced it with an even more egregious and abusive advertising system.

Google gets no thanks from me.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by xNeil on Saturday August 26, 2023 @12:17AM (#37269902)
The only non-consenting advertising I can think of is public billboards - and I believe those should be banned, most definitely.

Every single other type of advertising requires your explicit consent. YouTube? Google? Newspapers? All have your consent.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by dgb23 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:53AM (#37270696)
This is actually a good point.

I can’t avoid billboards. But I can trivially avoid FB/Google/YT etc.

I can also use things like uBlock.

The internet is open and inherently client focused. That’s a huge feature. We’re ultimately in control.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by FridgeSeal on Saturday August 26, 2023 @04:05AM (#37270742)
This is good in theory, but does not hold for day-to-day reality.

News reports, announcements, updates, etc are often announced and hosted on social media and YouTube. The main news outlets hardly host their own video, and half the useful announcements got made on Twitter first (before Musk torched it lol), so unless “remain deliberately ignorant” is the alternative - which I don’t think it is, then the reality is that you end up on one of these tech giants real quick.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by developer93 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:20AM (#37271025)
Or take some mildly grey area technical steps to get around it. I don't see too many ads these days between the pihole & newpipe & whatever adblockers I've got on Firefox. Traditional TV when we watch the news is basically it. That not open to everyone I know since you need some technical knowledge to set it up.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by troupo on Saturday August 26, 2023 @04:41AM (#37270860)
> Every single other type of advertising requires your explicit consent. YouTube? Google? Newspapers? All have your consent.

How exactly do they have that "consent"?

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by xNeil on Sunday August 27, 2023 @01:38AM (#37279710)
You must accept their Terms of Service to use them. These terms of service state that they will show you advertising, and in order to use the website, you must agree to these terms. They have very clear consent.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by troupo on Sunday August 27, 2023 @06:41AM (#37281340)
That EULA is a) unenforceable in many countries and b) does not constitute informed consent under GDPR
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by sib on Sunday August 27, 2023 @01:50PM (#37285012)
Seems like good proof that the GDPR != Truth
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by JohnFen on Monday August 28, 2023 @11:03AM (#37295188)
> The only non-consenting advertising I can think of is public billboards

There is advertising in public washrooms, there is advertising on people's clothing, there is advertising playing on PA systems, there is advertising embedded in movies, there is advertising presented as news. There is nonconsenting advertising everywhere. In my experience, more of it is nonconsenting than consenting -- probably because very few people would actually consent to it.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by hightrix on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:21PM (#37269042)
Visual and mental pollution.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by awsation on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:16PM (#37269341)
They Live with the glasses on.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by ehnto on Saturday August 26, 2023 @12:40AM (#37269991)
It is a product, just not for consumers. Other companies buy the product and it is applied onto the consumer, to the consumers distaste.

Advertising is itself always balancing on the tradeoff between disgruntling the consumer and the benefit the consumer gets from the media/tool they're actually trying to engage with. It's an implicit bargain for most people, not an explicit one.

For me, advertising crossed that line a long time ago. If I had to watch the amount of ads YouTube actually puts in front of you, I wouldn't use it. Thank goodness for ad blockers.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by kranke155 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @06:20AM (#37271404)
Fair. It’s a business product that’s anti-consumer
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by JohnFen on Monday August 28, 2023 @11:01AM (#37295155)
A service.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by t0bia_s on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:25AM (#37270574)
It's proof that advertised product is not good enough to be advertisement by itself.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by otabdeveloper4 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @08:43AM (#37272343)
Of course it is. Start your own business and see how far you get without a quality advertising product.
Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by glitchc on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:44AM (#37272852)
According to what definition? It has clients, it needs to be matketed. Budgets are assigned to deliver it. A good ad campaign gets awards. A commercial is intellectual property.

By all properties, it is a product.

Re:EU’s War on Behavioral Advertising by sib on Sunday August 27, 2023 @01:49PM (#37284999)
I mean, of course it is. The customer is the advertiser.