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Re:They Tried to Kill Me by Kapura on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @09:13AM (#37146552)
The part that really got to me was this paragraph:

>“That is what drives us crazy,” the detective said. “You come here and act like you’re on vacation. Like this is some paradise. It doesn’t even occur to you to keep yourself safe. We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. Your carelessness, yours and your colleagues, knows no bounds.”

It's very difficult to reconcile what seems like the safety of Europe with the reality of a war that is being fought online as much as on the ground. Journalists have always been targeted by authoritarian regimes, but the connectedness of the modern world makes them dangerous even outside after leaving the country. Clearly this is what the Russian state believes.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by 0xDEF on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:01AM (#37147139)
I remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane.

No punishment for planned/attempted murder.

The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by Aeolun on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:39AM (#37147778)
Do you have a source for that? Because the story as told seems vanishingly unlikely. Maybe nothing could be proven but that they were there illegaly?
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by selectodude on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:10AM (#37147279)
It’s not naïvety, it’s that that west would appreciate the same treatment when they send spies and assassins, which they do.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by y-curious on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:33AM (#37147675)
> which they do.

Citation sorely needed

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by frob on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:37AM (#37147732)
Oh you sweet American child
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by justsomehnguy on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:38AM (#37147751)
Santa Claus isn't real.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by selectodude on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:47AM (#37147912)
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by fmajid on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @02:33PM (#37151592)
That was by Israelis, not Western Europeans.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by tim333 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @02:55PM (#37151899)
The US tends to use drones these days eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by sinkwool on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:17AM (#37147393)
Or maybe they manage to recruit some of the spies/assassins to work as double-agents?
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by selectodude on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:31AM (#37147634)
Another distinct possibility.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by dash2 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:31AM (#37147632)
When has the West sent assassins to Iran or Russia?
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by Aeolun on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:37AM (#37147742)
What’s the point? Assassinate one dictator and in a few months they’ll have a new one, or the country devolves into a hell of fighting for the next 5 years until one can crown themselves king.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by olegious on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:42AM (#37147834)
The West prefers more refined tactics like missiles- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleima...
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by vxNsr on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:45AM (#37147877)
Again it is extreme naïveté, those assassins when caught are summarily executed. Iran will pick people off the street, accuse them of working for Israel and kill them, just to send a message to their own people. They’re not politely returning western assassins.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by bee_rider on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @12:10PM (#37149246)
I don’t think it is naivety really, Western countries mostly don’t have to “send messages” to their own citizens. Summarily executing assassins or random people you claim to be assassins is just throwing away negotiating chips.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by lordlimecat on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @12:30PM (#37149553)
And it's your belief that the State Department-- let alone the CIA-- are totally ignorant of what Iran does to its staff?
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by vxNsr on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @02:40PM (#37151690)
Nope, I think the politicians at the top are hopelessly naive or simply too maliciously self involved to care. And are more concerned with appearances than any of the values they claim to espouse.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by fsloth on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:47AM (#37147921)
Exactly. It’s a newtonian game where an action creates a counter action. “You take off one of our field agents, we take off one of your. You return our agent to us, we probably return your agent to you” I have no idea of the recruitment pool but I would imagine operatives who can perform assassinations and are not total loose cannons are in finite supply.

Without experience in this domain, I could fermi-guess optimal ones probably come from the few percentages of population who don’t suffer of PTSD after violence. So if you want a person of above average intelligence, who does not mind going to plausibly suicidal missions, and is able to keep it all together, AND has decided to take a career in cloak&dagger… I’d say such fields agents are not trivial to replace. Hence you probably want to issue the courtesy of returning opposing forces, rather than having to find a new field agent (or whatever they are called) or several.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by generic92034 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:38AM (#37147757)
And how would the inevitably resulting prisoner exchange later benefit anyone?
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by jackmott42 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:19AM (#37147424)
It is more general than the west, it is that Good people are naive. They don't understand how many people are willing to lie and kill to get even petty gains from it. The USA is struggling with this asymmetry internally right now too. We are slowly and politely trying to prosecute people who attempted to overturn an election while they incite civil unrest and pass laws protecting themselves from prosecution
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by eclecticfrank on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:32AM (#37147651)
Integrity is often confused with naivety in light of desired animalistic revenge.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by Swizec on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:37AM (#37147749)
Part of the problem is that if you do it their way, you become them. What’s the point of winning if you get the same outcome as not winning? USA doesn’t need a left/center authoritarian regime just as much as it doesn’t want a right authoritarian regime.

So let’s not advocate for the left becoming authoritarian shall we? [parts of] Europe tried that already, it doesn’t work either.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by bee_rider on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:42AM (#37147837)
It is good to be thorough with this stuff, and sometimes that means things go more slowly than we’d like. But the end result is that nobody reasonable could think it is a partisan witch hunt. It might be the case that a significant chunk of the populace is unreasonable, but that isn’t something that can be solved by changing courtroom procedures.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by vxNsr on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:47AM (#37147918)
It’s truly shocking how much misinformation people will believe because it jives with their current beliefs.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by Ancapistani on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @11:56AM (#37149036)
> The USA is struggling with this asymmetry internally right now too. We are slowly and politely trying to prosecute people who attempted to overturn an election while they incite civil unrest and pass laws protecting themselves from prosecution

This is an interesting statement to me, because the right uses very similar language in the opposite direction. To paraphrase: "we're playing by the rules while the left is using the federal government to silence political adversaries."

From where I sit, those statements don't seem entirely accurate, but they also are not mutually exclusive.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by lordlimecat on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @12:31PM (#37149571)
The idea that the CIA is naive to what Russia does is pretty amusing.

Yes, if only they frequented social media, they might have some clue what Chinese, Russian, and Iranian security services were up to. Alas for their naivete...

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by qingcharles on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:46AM (#37147898)
Is it possible they had diplomatic passports?

Most spies are known to the host nations as they work out of the embassy under cover jobs with standard diplomatic passports, therefore they have diplomatic immunity if they run into trouble and the best the host country can do is permanently evict them.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by foldedcornice on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:32AM (#37147649)
This matches with an account by Bellingcat reporter Christo Grozev, who was interviewed by the Financial Times [1]:

"How does it feel, I ask, to be here in absentia? Grozev laughs. After the Russians indicted him “in absentia”, he posted a selfie video from Palm Beach, Florida, against a sunset backdrop. “I said, ‘If this is absentia, it’s a pretty great place to be.’”

"Is Austria the least safe European country? “Yes,” he replies. “While we [Bellingcat] were investigating the Austrians, they were surveilling me and I wasn’t aware of that at the time. They were doing so explicitly at the request of the Russians. That is deep penetration.”

"He says the Germans advised him not to settle in Germany. He last visited Germany in 2020 under heavy guard as a witness in the prosecution of a Russian who had assassinated a Chechen exile. “We are also investigating examples of Russian security services penetrating German political circles,” he says. “France, I would not trust them: they don’t even trust themselves. The only place in Europe I can come to safely nowadays is the UK.”

"He is still angry, however, at London’s Metropolitan Police for cancelling his and his family’s attendance at the Bafta film awards this year. “Hearing it through the grapevine was offensive,” he says. “If there is also a risk to my family, they should tell me directly.”

"Both Turkey and the United Arab Emirates, which is teeming with Russians, are off-limits, he adds. “Dubai is Vienna on the Gulf,” he says. “I have heard this warning from both the Emirates and Turkey — ‘Do not come here. We will try to protect you. We will never extradite you [to Russia]. But we can’t guarantee your safety.’”"

Grozen did his interview in the United States, where he is currently living. I suspect that the separation by the sea (English Channel for the UK and the Atlantic for the US) increases the security.

[1] (Paywalled) https://www.ft.com/content/03f220e1-6a7e-4850-bf4e-4b0f521d8...

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by user3939382 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:39AM (#37147775)
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by r721 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:49AM (#37147949)
>MintPress News supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News

>The Monthly Review, established in 1949, is an independent socialist magazine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monthly_Review

>Originally published: The Grayzone

>The Grayzone has downplayed human rights abuses against Uyghurs, posted conspiracy theories about Venezuela, Xinjiang, Syria and other regions, and posted pro-Russian propaganda during the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grayzone

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by user3939382 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @02:52PM (#37151862)
The Grayzone is one of the best outlets there is. The smears about them on Wikipedia are by users with a political axe to grind. Go ahead and google the usernames of the Wikipedia users that voted them an unreliable source I’ll wait.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by r721 on Thursday August 17, 2023 @09:58AM (#37161670)
>The Grayzone is one of the best outlets there is

You just describe yourself with this statement, not The Grayzone.

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by user3939382 on Thursday August 17, 2023 @01:59PM (#37165634)
Yeah I described myself as someone who isn't brainwashed by corporate media and the State Dept.
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by 0xDEF on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:49AM (#37147957)
Just FYI the Mint Press News writers went around Michigan and did false-flag Nazi graffiti in an attempt to implicate Ukrainian refugees:

https://www.propastop.org/eng/2023/05/19/how-the-kremlin-use...

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by dralley on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:50AM (#37147963)
I have doubts that an outlet supposedly so controlled by national security interests would have released such a profoundly embarrassing report on the state of US nuclear weapons security in Europe.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos...

Re:They Tried to Kill Me by 5e92cb50239222b on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @10:37AM (#37147735)
Re:They Tried to Kill Me by sharts on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @01:50PM (#37150875)
Journalists have always been targeted by all regimes, “authoritarian” or not. When puppet masters are questioned by journalists, their lives are materially affected.

Julian Assange, Shireen Abu Akleh, etc.

There’s a reason most mainstream media reporting is the equivalent of 2nd grade book report.