This is part of the problem. They are a threat, but they're also still people.

Just don't think of them as less than human.

I can tell you're frustrated about having to see homeless people. Let's just drop it there, then. I hope your community heals.

I want them out of the way and far away from my kids. I was pretty clear that I perceived them as a threat.

As far as how are they a threat, really?

The internet is overflowing with articles like this. https://www.foxla.com/news/lapd-woman-stabbed-in-head-scisso...

And yes, really, I'm asking how they're a threat when they're unconscious? Just because they're homeless doesn't make them dangerous. This attitude of the homeless being a nuisance or and inconvenience instead of part of the community only exacerbates the problem and makes them less likely to receive the help they need. Homelessness is a complex issue and I'm not sure what the solution is but seeing them as people in tough circumstances that need help is a start.

I invite people in my community into my home. Do you expect me to invite homeless addicts into my house?

Homeless people are a "nuisance and inconvenience" to the community. To argue otherwise is to be disingenuous.

These are just from yesterday

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/homeless-man-accused-of-fat...

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pittsburgh-police-arrest-suspect...

Okay, it's pretty clear that you're discussing this from a place of ignorance and privilege. I suggest educating yourself better before engaging further on this subject.

What is there to educate myself on? I want to live in a safe neighborhood where my kids don't have to worry about stepping on needles or vomit, where my wife can walk down the street without being catcalled by dudes that have not showered in 3 weeks. Where stores and cars are not broken into. Is that wrong? And before we touch on all we need is more housing, sure but that's expensive, takes a really long time to build and how are the addicts going to pay rent or are we just going to raise taxes? Plus I don't want an apartment complex full of addicts next door.

If you'd like to gain more of an understanding, I think the best way is to talk with them directly about their experience. Volunteering is an excellent way to do this.

One correction: many opiate users, yes, even heroin users, can be functional members of society. There are many folks you would never know use H, at least until they accidentally get some fentanyl and die.

Same thing with meth(which is actually a prescription medication). I'll say that there is always a very high probability that some life stress transforms a casual usage pattern into full-blown addiction though. I've seen it first hand with a family member who used meth for years "on the weekends, to get things done" until some stress in their mid-40s turned them into a hallucinating IV meth user.

More or less though, I think we should maintain criminalization of public usage of most drugs, but I'm open to whatever pragmatic approach maximizes public health and safety while lowering crime.

I'm open to decriminalizing everything, start with steroids. As long as there are harsh punishments for public intoxication, property damage, theft and all the adjacent crimes that addiction causes, have at it. It can't result in a wasteland of addicts in every down town though

I also knew one person who worked in finance and EVERYONE did coke; he wasn't addicted and stopped using when he switched fields (he hated the 80h weeks).

These anecdotes contrasted heavily with my experience in the Bronx in the 80s, where drug users were overwhelmingly drug abusers and generally awful people. I still won't use recreational drugs (other than caffeine and alcohol) but I don't judge people who do.

The part that hasn't changed is "screw them." Nobody really cares about these people. They're viewed as an inconvenience and the debate is over the least costly way to either warehouse them or shove them aside somewhere. Most people view addiction as a moral failing and think addicts deserve whatever they get.

I've never been in favor of drug criminalization except possibly in the case of the most addictive and deadly hard drugs (crystal meth, fentanyl, concentrated opiates), but I always hoped that legalization would come with a redirection of funding from prisons and police into treatment. The latter part just isn't happening, or isn't happening with any effectiveness. My take is that nobody gives a damn and decriminalization is more about saving money than freedom or better treatment approaches.

You could argue that the Taliban are the government that cares the most about addicts, because they are actually making addicts change the way a parent corrects a child

But addicts are grown ups with free will

Any * successful * treatment requires the patient to want treatment.

In addition, the triggers for it all need to be addressed.

Those can be:

Simple pain, trauma

More complex financial issues, housing, etc...

PTSD of various kinds, war, abuse and the like.

Without a plan to address triggers and desire to be done with it all, treatment success is extremely unlikely.

We are fallen creatures and simply accepting our fallen nature might be more productive

The primary is to want to be done.

It all starts there.

How ending it goes really depends on the person. Take it one struggle at a time. Wash, rinse repeat.

Having finished, one tends to look around and ask, "what now?"

And that is what I meant. Have some options for people that are not doorways back.

Decriminalizing doesn't change people with a drug problem into not having a drug problem, true. It does, at least, free them from also having a legal problem. Idea being that they can seek and get treatment for their drug problem, now. Something they can't do when it is criminal. (Indeed, reading the Wikipedia page for Portugal shows increased treatments as their first bullet in favor.)

I'd also guess that it makes it easier for treatments to be offered. As, right now, offering help there is basically aiding illegal activity.

  * Having to concede that Portugal is still doing better than most of Europe.
  * Leaning on pandemic years for a lot of the excess growth.
  * A passing discussion of funding and other costs.

Make them actually legal (and thus more safe), tax them heavily, use a portion of said taxation to support and rehabilitate those who need it. Don't allow it in public places that cause an unsafe environment.

This really isn't that complicated, we've just been under the spell of prohibition for so long waking up can be a bit disorienting.

Of course nothing is simple if given a close enough look, but there are also rather straightforward solutions here such that we shouldn’t feel just totally stumped about what to do.

-- Albert Einstein

In a later comment you ask ...how should I provide help & compassion?

I would say one-on-one as an individual walking the streets, you probably shouldn't, especially if you have children in tow.

We need to address our nationwide affordable housing crisis. California is disproportionately impacted and takes a lot of the blame for it, but I think they are basically the dumping ground and whipping boy for a national failure.

Decriminalization is helpful in part because if you criminalize use of the drug, it makes it harder to seek treatment. People who expect to go to jail for trying to get the help they need are more likely to not come forward and to continue to try to fix their problems themselves.

We need a better understanding of why people do drugs, what the underlying root causes are. It's hard to solve a problem without knowing why it exists. Given our long track record of not getting results, I think we have room for improvement in how we frame this problem.

I don't think decriminalization of hard drugs works without an ample amount of long term money set aside for treatment. Plus money for additional law enforcement to aggressively enforce existing property, violence and public intoxication laws. People should not have to endure a slipping down life because others choose to do drugs.

As far as the why people do drugs, I'm not sure we need that much study. It starts out fun, then it turns into something to numb the pain, then its something that is needed. I've done a myriad of drugs in my time, thankfully I never passed the fun phase. I don't presume to know what drove people to the 'numb the pain' phase and I do feel for them. I am not willing to upend my life or endanger my kids to find out. There is also a limit, how much money should society be expected to spend to constantly on an individual who keeps going through treatment and keeps going back to using? With that said, I do think the number is above zero.

My patience fails though at those that endanger others and commit crimes to further their addiction.

I'm just someone who thinks drug use happens for a reason and doesn't get resolved with sheer self discipline. It gets resolved when the reason for using gets resolved.