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Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ceejayoz on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:08PM (#36832244)
Don’t start with mozzarella. It isn’t a beginner cheese and is much tougher than it seems.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by motohagiography on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:40PM (#36832366)
I probably paid $20 in organic whole milk retail and a few hours of time for a yield of about $7 worth of mozzarella. The economics likely make more sense for aged cheeses where you can have some value add in your process to make it more notably homemade. Everything about dairy in Canada is absurd anyway, so you may have better luck elsewhere. Something I can make in sufficient quantities to age and enjoy over a longer period would make the afternoon more worthwhile, imo.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by smashed on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:27AM (#36832556)
I can relate, fellow Canadian too..

Even making your own yogurt is not cost efficient. It is literally cheaper to buy yogurt than the standard ordinary milk and sour it yourself. Cheese is even worse.

All the weird regulations, price control, quota, duties and import restrictions seem to ultimately benefit mostly the very large industrial transformers, leaving actual farmers with scraps and consumers with ballooning costs.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by gnicholas on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:16AM (#36832978)
Interesting, I make yogurt and find it to be cost-effective. Perhaps that’s just because yogurt is very expensive here (Silicon Valley).
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by eternauta3k on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:44AM (#36833090)
Also cost-effective in Germany, at least the materials. To minimize the time cost,

* don't do the initial step where you almost boil the milk

* dissolve the powdered milk and starter yogurt using one of these [1]

* make the yogurt directly in the boxes ("tupperware") you'll be storing it in

* make large batches

[1] https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=sch%C3%BCttelbecher...

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by j45 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:02AM (#36833161)
Yogurt is absolutely more cost effective to make at home in Canada.

You can’t buy 1 gallon/4 litres of yogurt for $5 as far as I can tell. Maybe there is an angle I’m not aware of.

Plus you can be free of all the preservatives.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by Broken_Hippo on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:55AM (#36833660)
Plus you can be free of all the preservatives.

This is the speech of a scaremonger: You might not be trying to scare folks, but you've certainly bought into it. Preservatives cut down on food waste and are an overall good for society. More folks would starve without these and more folks would wind up with foodborne illnesses.

I'll mention that salt and sugar are preservatives, we've just found better methods now. Are all of them good? Nope, but food preservation was never perfect. That doesn't make it worse now.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by prmoustache on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:17AM (#36836142)
They may be a necessary evil for large production of the industry but you can make do without them when you make your owns that you will eat in the following 3 days. It is still a bonus in that case.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by j45 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:10PM (#36841423)
Not to distract from the original conversation, it’s great meaning your own yogurt in the quantities you’ll consume per week.

No fearmongering intended.

There’s lots of natural preservatives. But we know that’s not always the case with most commercial options.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by astura on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:09PM (#36836663)
Something I've noticed about Yogurt specifically - yogurt is very expensive at the grocery store (almost $5 for the 32 oz tub of plain store brand) but much cheaper at Walmart ($2.36 for a 32 oz tub of plain store brand).
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by chronogram on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:38AM (#36833329)
Were you trying to make yoghurt without starting with yoghurt? All you need is a little bit of yoghurt and the bacteria will multiply and sour the milk. Same thing for kefir, fil milk and plant based yoghurts.

Mozzarella is made with a sort of perpetual stew at the farm or milk factory, instead of adding a bacterial culture directly to milk like most cheeses.

In the Netherlands you can find dairy farms everywhere, and some of those have a shop with some range of milk or milk products, usually what they themselves prefer the most. They know how it works, so they can replicate it and it becomes no problem.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by OJFord on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:15AM (#36834634)
> Were you trying to make yoghurt without starting with yoghurt? All you need is a little bit of yoghurt

Don't make it sound difficult to bootstrap. You can just use some chickpeas or chilli crowns.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by smashed on Sunday July 23, 2023 @10:36PM (#36842494)
I think I was not clear enough.

First there is a floor price on milk. Milk cannot legally be sold below that floor price to consumers.

Farmers are prohibited from selling fresh milk direct to consumers. It's illegal. Period. They can't gift it either. It has to go to a transformer to be mixed with, homogenized and pasteurized.

Dairies and cheese makers, with the proper license, buy fresh milk in bulk to be transformed.

Since yogurt, or cheese, is not milk, there is no floor price. Somehow this often cause the transformed product to cost less than the raw ingredients (milk) that goes into it if you were to purchase that milk as a consumer.

And of course, you can only buy pasteurized, homogenized milk, which is an entire other problems.

This is the case in Quebec, Canada. Other provinces have different but similar laws. The dairy industry is the only one that is protected in such a way, hence why OP commented how crazy the industry is here, as nothing else work that way.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ttctciyf on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:52AM (#36833397)
Anecdotally, UK, the cheapest yoghurt (believe me, I have researched!) just dropped from £1.10/l to about £0.7/l - anomalous considering the rampant groceries inflation we have, but there it is.

Milk is about £0.64/l, so roughly equivalent if you add in the cost of heating it.

However, the price for live yoghurt is a different story - much more expensive, which is why I have recently started making my own.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by cinntaile on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:24AM (#36833533)
Is this UHT milk or the kind that only lasts a week?
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by verbify on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:09AM (#36833711)
I buy oat milk, but I assume the kind that lasts a week. UHT is not very popular on these islands.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by t90fan on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:21AM (#36833756)
The latter, UHT isn't popular at all here in the UK, unlike on the continent.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by implements on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:53AM (#36833886)
Fresh milk is currently £1.45 for 2.27 litres, down from £1.65 at peak.

Tip for UK readers: You can put an unopened 4pt plastic milk bottle in the freezer and it will keep as long as UHT. Defrosts in a few days in a fridge. (Was handy during COVID lockdowns)

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ttctciyf on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:00AM (#36833914)
Ordinary, but skimmed milk - mumsnet says you need to boil it for ~10 mins and then let it cool to ~40C before adding the live yoghurt culture. Working well so far!

UHT is usable, and doesn't need to be boiled, but for that added convenience it costs nearly twice as much.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by prmoustache on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:18AM (#36836150)
I don't think these kinda of comparisons are valid.

The cheapest yoghurts have all a very bad taste and consistency in the mouth while those you will do at home taste on par with those you pay a premium for.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ttctciyf on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:39PM (#36838285)
Cheap yoghurt where I buy it tastes fine and has a pleasant consistency. YMMV.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by foobarian on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:52AM (#36834860)
Not Canadian here, but isn't it expected that a large scale bulk operation would inevitably be more efficient than a small scale manual one, regardless of any regulatory factors? At the end of the day the goal should not be for an amateur to beat a cutting edge agro corp on price. There are tons of other metrics that big co. can't compete on, such as learning, unique flavor, enjoyment of a hobby, etc.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by BenjiWiebe on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:46AM (#36832603)
It is also much harder to make a good aged cheese then a good fresh cheese. There's a lot more chance for bad bacteria to contribute a bad flavor or spoil the cheese if you give it more time.

Speaking as the son of a small commercial cheesemaker, who started out (~23 years ago) making cheddar that only stayed good for about a week in the fridge. Now we make aged cheddar.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by bruce511 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:15AM (#36832737)
Oh, trust me, the economics don't work out. And that's just for raw materials - if you factor your labor and energy (especially if you age it in a refrigerator) then it's even more bonkers.

But its a fun hobby - if you can stand the long feedback cycles.

Personally I'm pretty much only making a sort-of curd-cheese now [1] with left over (sour) milk. Its fast to make, only ages for a couple weeks, and then I use it in a quiche. Which works really well and us more of a way to use excess milk than actually "make cheese".

[1] I use citric acid and heat to separate the curd, then put that in moulds to drain for 2 weeks are do - minimal pressing. Forms a firm, crumbly curd with a mild sour flavor.

I made a large wheel once, and matured it for a year, and it was edible, but nothing special. That's too long for me to get the feedback I need to improve.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by bobthepanda on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:33AM (#36832801)
If you wanted a fermentation product that is doable in the home with quicker lead times and more variation, kimchi or other pickled veg is a pretty good candidate.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by IanCal on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:36AM (#36834114)
Lacto fermentation is fantastic. I do it with my 4yo son, he also comes up with new things to try. We regularly do kimchi or something similar, tomatoes, green beans, red sauerkraut. He suggested strawberries which was great.

Takes about a week, cheap and very easy. A decent kimchi here is £4.50 for a small pot, maybe 250-400g? I can make 2kg+ for less. Kimchi is the only one I've seen sold out of the list too. I highly recommend trying it, if you have a vac sealer it's even easier.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by bobthepanda on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:27PM (#36838180)
Strawberries seem like it would be similar to umeboshi, Japanese pickled plum.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ghaff on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:51AM (#36834503)
There are a ton of things you can play around with making at home and you by all means should if you enjoy it and want to learn more. Kombucha is another one I haven't seen mentioned here. I did a fair bit of beer brewing at one point--but mostly before there was such a great local supply of microbrews/craft brews. (You couldn't basically get IPAs, which is of course nothing like the case today.)

But, yeah, you don't really save money in general and decent commercial products you can easily get many places are as good or better.

There are exceptions. Some bread products (including biscuits etc.) are reasonable to make at home, especially if you don't have convenient access to a good baker. (There are a few in the city but not near me.)

I find cooking in general is rewarding and can save quite a bit of money.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by astura on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:16PM (#36836735)
>Kombucha is another one I haven't seen mentioned here...you don't really save money in general and decent commercial products you can easily get many places are as good or better.

Kombucha is the exception.

I make kombucha at home. The labor is extremely minimal (basically the same effort as making a gallon of sweet iced tea) and the economics absolutely make sense - the cost less than $1 a gallon for me to make it vs $3-5 for 16 oz at the grocery store. Plus I already have pounds of tea at home.

The other reasons I make it are to avoid having to haul heavy bottles into the house and because I prefer unflavored kombucha and only flavored ones are widely available commercially.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by ghaff on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:58PM (#36842195)
Fair. But, like a lot of these things, economic home production probably also requires a fair bit of production/use. My problem was that I just wasn't drinking enough and my scoby ended up contaminated.

Yeah, if you use a lot and are just producing unflavored, kombucha is pretty easy/cheap.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by astura on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @11:38PM (#36872797)
Good point - I drink kombucha or tea everyday. That's an excessive consumption for most people.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by mdswanson on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:28PM (#36832323)
+1. I've made a few cheeses, and mozzarella was on the more difficult side.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by poulsbohemian on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:59PM (#36832438)
I think the key here is that you can make a “mozzarella” pretty easily, but an actual mozzarella is a more difficult cheese. Still I’d rank it easier for the home cheesemaker than many hard cheeses that require months of aging at specific humidity and temperature.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by bruce511 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:18AM (#36832748)
I also found if easier - and the feedback cycle was immediate so I did it multiple times and improved.

But of course it has no flavor, or more accurately all the flavor comes from the milk, so your milk supply matters a lot.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by civilitty on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:18AM (#36832989)
Try making burrata. The cream inside dun changed the game.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by cheeze_whizz on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:05AM (#36834947)
No, it's just hard to make traditional mozzarella, it takes more than a day and careful control of acidity. The "30 minute" recipes are faster and easier because they substitute the long acidification of the traditional recipes with instant acidification (with citric acid, vinegar etc) but they have a very high failure rate. If you search for "mozzarella" on r/cheesemaking you can see that maybe one out of three are from people who couldn't make it work:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cheesemaking/search/?q=mozzarella&r...

That must be an underestimate too, because the people most likely to post on reddit to tell everyone about their mozzarella are the ones who had a "success!!!" with it.

Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by poulsbohemian on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:58PM (#36837883)
Well aware of this difference, thus my use of quotes and italics to differentiate.
Re:How to Make Cheese at Home by GuB-42 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:02PM (#36841768)
Also, if you want to make traditional mozzarella, you need hard to find buffalo milk, ideally from the Italian breed.