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Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by ponorin on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:48PM (#36822687)
It's not just an opinion, it's a physical reality. We only have the Earth's worth of biomass that we can use. And unlike former Twitter CEO's pipe dream we aren't anywhere near being able to venture into an exoplanet, and attempting to do so is hurting the environment yet again. About the only reason we're not changing course is because most nations on this planet currently subscribe to an ideology devised in the colonial age by some european dudes.
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by mattnewton on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:04PM (#36822783)
I don’t buy this argument, it sounds too much like the malthusians explaining there wasn’t enough arable land to support the population before nitrogen fertilizer was invented. I’m not saying we have a “fertilizer for energy” around the corner, but I also wouldn’t rule it out and start asking people to stop building.
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by MagicMoonlight on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:19PM (#36822859)
We do, it's called nuclear power. We could have had unlimited power for effectively no cost if we'd just spammed reactors but we didn't.
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by ChatGTP on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:41PM (#36823009)
I don't know why people just pretend there hasn't been any ultra costly nuclear incidents.

Personally, I think nuclear could be fantastic, humans just cannot be trusted to manage it. Fukushima was a case of negligence, it wasn't caused by the Tsunami. The operators did not implement the recommended safety improvements because they didn't respect Murphy's law.

So when a case is made like this, "just spam nuclear reactors", you're glossing over the details that we've fucked up a lot of nuclear reactors?

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by katbyte on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:56PM (#36823090)
We’ve fucked up a lot of nuclear reactors? At my count it’s 2. 2 out of over 400 over 60? Years.

And while solar is great, you still need base-load and for most places in most cases solar + storage can’t do that.

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by kaba0 on Saturday July 22, 2023 @03:58AM (#36824332)
2, one in the Soviet Union with known-to-be unsafe technology with bad incentives around control. The other happened as the result of the biggest recorded tsunami in Japan and human error, again.

With that said, cooling reactors need a bit of rethinking with this warmup, rivers may no longer be fine to use.

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by katbyte on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:47PM (#36827708)
not to mention coal kills more people via radiation yearly then have died from those 2 reactor accidents
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by armada651 on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:18AM (#36823204)
> I don't know why people just pretend there hasn't been any ultra costly nuclear incidents.

The costs from climate change far exceeds the cleanup and damage costs from all nuclear accidents combined.

Even if we spammed nuclear reactors I still don't think a proportional increase in nuclear accidents would come anywhere near the damages from climate change.

The advantage of nuclear energy is that it will only pollute a large area in a disaster. While fossil fuels spread their pollution constantly over the entire planet by design, no disaster required.

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by goatlover on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:46AM (#36823369)
As bad as Fukushima and Chernobyl were, they're not barren wastelands. They're just more radioactive, increasing the risks of cancer, birth defects and what not. You can go visit both places. The fear over nuclear accidents is displaced compared to all the damage from fossil fuels.
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by Ekaros on Saturday July 22, 2023 @06:45AM (#36825128)
The absolute worst case disaster of Chernobyl actually lead to situation that many environmental activist want. A area of nature entirely left alone. With some increase in side effects on animal population, but in general thriving ecosystem.

Doesn't honestly seem too bad scenario. And being cynic, isn't population reduction the most effective way to combat climate change anyway?

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by falcolas on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:23PM (#36822883)
Ironically, we’re getting our fertilizer from the same place we get most of our fuel: exhaustible caches in the ground. They may never run out, but they will only go up in price, raising the price of food.
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by defrost on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:44PM (#36823025)
Ahhh, not exactly - we get our fertilizer from the air actually - it's the enormous energy draw required that causes us to use fossil fuels from the ground.

    That massive carbon footprint exists because although the Haber-Bosch process represents a huge technological advancement, it’s always been an energy-hungry one. The reaction, which runs at temperatures around 500 °C and at pressures up to about 20 MPa, sucks up about 1% of the world’s total energy production. 
https://cen.acs.org/environment/green-chemistry/Industrial-a...

Here in my state we're looking hard at mass production (global scale numbers) of 'green' ammonia.

https://fortescue.com/what-we-do/green-energy-research/green...

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by rendang on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:21AM (#36823221)
We get our N that way, not our K and P
Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by defrost on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:26AM (#36823549)
Potash salts (for Potassium (K)) are relatively adundant in the crust and if pressed can always be recovered from organics in the traditional manner.

High-grade phosphate rock (for Phosphorus (P)) is the declining resource, or perhaps more accurately isn't matched by our ever increasing demand for it in fertilizers as our human population grows. For now at least we're coasting along on increased beneficiation of lower grade ore through washing, flotation and calcining.

It's a fair point - I'm personally in the "let's see fewer humans overall camp", I'm not advocating genocide, just in favour of birth rates continuing to decline until we're back between (say) 4 to 6 billion.

Unlimited growth in a petri dish has obvious issues, even if the dish is the surface of a relatively large sphere.

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by gsatic on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:58PM (#36823101)
There is a better way to think about it esp for the tech/engineering class that hangs out over here.

Govts/corporations are full of ppl. People are programmed not just for Consumption but Conspicuous Consumption.

Social status is directly tied to what Luxuries you can afford. No one wants to work for a simple boss, but for the dude who lives on a super yatch.

The most ambitious ppl know this and take full advantage of it to trap ppl who work for them in golden cages. The greatest anxiety of a beauracrat/corporate exec is exiting the cage.

Luxuries are a gigantic WASTE. And the largest companies in the world sell Luxury cause the most ambitious of the elite use luxury to signal status and trap/control everyone.

Technical minded ppl spend most of their day trying to reduce waste. So they are the group that can come up with ways that can interfere with these cycles everyone feels they are trapped in.

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by BuyMyBitcoins on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:09AM (#36823153)
>”Govts/corporations are full of ppl. People are programmed…”

This is a pet peeve of mine, but seeing “ppl” drives me crazy. Particularly when the rest of the comment is typed normally, and then the next word is “people”!

Re:To Save the Planet, Should We Be Moving Slower? by hashxyz on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:13AM (#36823773)
Do you even know how many years “an earth’s worth of biomass” could power our civilization? What if it’s like 1,000 years? I think you are just doomposting.