News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by no_wizard on Thursday July 20, 2023 @12:45PM (#36803181)
Is there going to be a universal SDK / API we can use with this? This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry (or at least put pressure on lowering fees). That would be a huge win.

Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies. Would be great if the Federal Government could intervene in some way to have Visa / Mastercard / American Express / Discover use the same API interface for payments. Would dramatically increase competition for providers.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by JumpCrisscross on Thursday July 20, 2023 @12:52PM (#36803298)
> Is there going to be a universal SDK / API we can use with this?

There is probably a neobank opportunity in providing this. FedNow is, reasonably, administered by banks. (The Fed doesn't want to provide end-user customer service nor incur liability for fraud.)

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by no_wizard on Thursday July 20, 2023 @12:56PM (#36803357)
Right. I suppose that makes sense. I’m thinking about ease of startup costs for institutions that want to use it financially. The Fed would need to support that anyway. Perhaps by not limiting a qualifying institution to just banks but also opening up access to financial service firms would be enough. They could just have some sort of fair priced qualifying program that a company has to maintain to access it or something
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by imtringued on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:36PM (#36804721)
Isn't this column's whole shtick?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by ericjmorey on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:01PM (#36806697)
The Fed is not allowed to compete with member banks. That's part of the reason why something like FedNow took so long to emerge.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by incahoots on Thursday July 20, 2023 @01:07PM (#36803497)
I think you know the answer to your question, more than likely this won’t see the light of day outside of federal usage.

Far too much lobbying for any REAL competition to shake up the industry.

This will be exclusive to the federal government and state governments I imagine.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by uses on Thursday July 20, 2023 @01:52PM (#36804136)
Currently this works between banks only. Banks have reserves at the Fed, and those reserves are what gets adjusted when a FedNow transaction happens. The banks then adjust their own records on their customers' behalf.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by gumby on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:21PM (#36804508)
The fed lists a number of service providers on their page. I assume they will now roll out some interfaces. Glad to see the US banking system start to catch up with the rest of the world ca mid 90s.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by rowls66 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @09:35PM (#36809051)
I believe the service providers are offering services to banks.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by cubefox on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:37PM (#36809392)
Walmart supported FedNow when it was in development. I'd bet they want to save those credit card fees they currently pay for people buying their groceries with them.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by foobarian on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:22PM (#36805422)
So it's like a Bitcoin exchange, but with dollars!
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tarmon on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:31PM (#36805561)
I don't see how this is anything like a crypto exchange, is there something I'm missing here?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by RC_ITR on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:11PM (#36806050)
Some crypto maximalists ignore many of the intrinsic aspects of crypto (decentralized consensus, cryptography, etc.) because in their use case, it's just 'digital money.'

So when a completely dissimilar example of 'digital money' comes up, they equate it to crypto, even though it lacks many of the intrinsic aspects of crypto.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tourmalinetaco on Friday July 21, 2023 @01:59AM (#36810473)
None of the intrinsic aspects of crypto matter if its in a centralized exchange. In the cases of a centralized exchange BTC may as well equal fiat, for it has all of the downsides of fiat alongside the risk of an exit scam/mass theft, and with none of the insurances one may have with a fiat institution.

So, unfortunately, for these “crypto” maximalists, the crypto aspect of their digital currency is just some fun trivia and not something they even bother to leverage.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by AmericanChopper on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:32PM (#36805575)
Some would say suspiciously so. Which is why some commentators think this is being implemented as a prerequisite of a CBDC.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by treyd on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:14PM (#36806076)
The FedNow project was in the works long before any serious CBDC idea was conceptualized.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by AmericanChopper on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:49PM (#36806554)
I work with a couple of organisations that have been advising public institutions on their investigations into CBDCs, and the entire timeline of FedNow development took place after CBDCs had initially been conceptualised. CBDCs became a mainstream concept in 2016 when the Bank of England started discussing them publicly. The Faster Payments Taskforce report (which was the basis of FedNow’s design) came out in 2017, and the Fed announced its plans to start work on FedNow in 2019. Many advanced economies announced plans to start seriously investigating the use of CDBCs in 2021, but they’d all been discussing the concept for years at that point.

I don’t know whether the fed’s investigation into CBDCs will result in it adopting one. But FedNow has been designed in such a way that it could easily be modified to support one. You’d just have to implement a version of it where the allowed participants were everybody who’s allowed to have a bank account, rather than only banks.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by treyd on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:28PM (#36809331)
>But FedNow has been designed in such a way that it could easily be modified to support one.

Curious how this would work, it would be a pretty big inversion of asset control to make it work.

Saying "just have to" is a very big "just", considering it was aimed at only a few thousand institutions with very tight reporting requirements being the target audience instead of hundreds of millions of nontechnical users that would need something that just werks.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by AmericanChopper on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:41PM (#36809411)
From the Fed's perspective it would be mostly changes to business processes to allow this to happen. Making it just work for end-users would could work in exactly the same way non-central bank digital currencies currently work, as in 3rd party institutions manage customer interfaces.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by landemva on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:37PM (#36806402)
It's like a centralized exchange in which funds can be seized, censored, and the participating brokers are licensed. Nothing like bitcoin.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by astrange on Thursday July 20, 2023 @09:04PM (#36808850)
It's also not like bitcoin because the exchange doesn't own dollars deposited at them and isn't run by a guy living in Dubai who's going to steal all of it.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by yieldcrv on Thursday July 20, 2023 @09:32PM (#36809039)
this is an odd consensus because you just described how all bitcoin exchanges in the US operate.

they are centralized in which funds can be seized, censored, and they all have money services licenses just like their corresponding banks do.

right, not like bitcoin, like bitcoin exchanges, just like the person said and you somehow ignored.

far more similarities than differences for this comment and the other comments at your level to be focusing on the differences and confused about the existence of similarities.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by fastball on Friday July 21, 2023 @12:03AM (#36809857)
There are decentralized exchanged which operate in the US.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by pavlov on Friday July 21, 2023 @05:34AM (#36811833)
How does a US resident get US dollars out of a decentralized exchange?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by landemva on Friday July 21, 2023 @01:22PM (#36816646)
Go old school neighborly. Convert it into something your friends or family want, then trade with them for the cash you want. If you don't know anyone that wants to help you reduce your bags of btc or eth, then consider finding a different community.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by melenaboija on Thursday July 20, 2023 @07:31PM (#36808219)
No, completely opposite. It is like a regular, centralized, and controlled by the government ledger[1] but faster, no more batch files at the end of the day like ACH and that is all.

Now is a matter of banks to pay the providers[2] to integrate with their systems and ledgers.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le8Me8AfK8k

[2] https://www.frbservices.org/news/press-releases/072023-fedno...

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by eweise on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:28PM (#36805521)
I think most if not all the participating banks are "receive only" so there's no one pushing any money yet.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by erickf1 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:02PM (#36805950)
It won't take long before all banks are using it. Once the banks are using it, employers will begin making payments using it. Once employees are receiving digital currency payments from employers, cash will end soon after.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by vel0city on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:08PM (#36806010)
I've been receiving my payments digitally from employers in the US for almost 20 years now.

I've never in my life received a wage in cash, as in, hard dollars.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by asah on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:36PM (#36806393)
...but with days of delay, where someone else is keeping the interest. And maybe charging a transaction fee.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by vel0city on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:20PM (#36806900)
> ...but with days of delay

Maybe a long time ago, but I get my pay which is supposed to be on the 1st and 15th on like the 13th and 29th or something. Getting paid "two days early" is a pretty common feature with Direct Deposit these days. It is always credited to my account before my actual paycheck technically gets posed.

> maybe charging a transaction fee

I imagine someone would be paying for the transaction of physically handling all the cash, no? Its not like having all the logistics of handling cash to potentially thousands of employees is a zero dollar cost. I imagine its massively cheaper for everyone to pay whatever marginal cost my employer is paying for ACH/DirectDeposit through their payroll app than paying a ton of people to handle and keep track of the cash.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by arjvik on Thursday July 20, 2023 @06:02PM (#36807340)
Getting paid early is essentially an automatic "Payday loan" provided by whoever you bank with (whatever institution receives your payhecks) as a perk of banking with them. I personally decline this service, because I don't like adding a paycheck-sized liability to my accounting books for two days.

My bank seems to trust my paycheck deposits, though, and they "clear" (update my balance and become spendable) under 24hrs after they show up as "pending."

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by vel0city on Thursday July 20, 2023 @06:46PM (#36807797)
They're based on notification from they payroll company about the incoming paycheck. They're not just assumed by the bank to be there, and I'm not charged any interest on it, so I wouldn't necessarily lump them into the same category as "payday loans" which usually carry extremely high interest rates and often don't actually have any basis on truly knowing if the paycheck is incoming or not. Getting paid early is not similar to going to a payday loan vendor and getting a loan.

So when my bank is crediting my account with my paycheck early, its because my work told them I'm getting paid that amount. Otherwise they wouldn't necessarily know of the amount. Sure, its like some kind of loan in a way, but its essentially paperovering the slowness of the ACH to actually clear in a decent timeframe.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by arjvik on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:36PM (#36820897)
Interesting, what is the system/standard through which payroll companies advance-notify these banks?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by vel0city on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:34PM (#36822622)
Direct Deposit. The banks can see the incoming transaction before the amounts clear. Payroll often starts the process two days early anyways since they try and get it to land on the 1st and 15th or whatever the dates are, so when the bank sees the incoming transaction it'll just automatically give me the funds while the clearing happens in the background.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by astrange on Thursday July 20, 2023 @09:05PM (#36808856)
Nobody has kept any interest in the last 13 years because interest rates have been 0%.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by msla on Thursday July 20, 2023 @09:45PM (#36809113)
Do you have any actual reason to believe what you just posted?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by landemva on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:35PM (#36806364)
I received W-2 wages in cash in the military. I suppose I'm old.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tekknik on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:13AM (#36813999)
These days they have you setup an account in basic, and setup direct deposit.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by nimbleplum40 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:16PM (#36806111)
Huh? Employers pay employees via direct deposit in many (most?) cases. This isn’t any different… Either way it’s money moving from one bank account to another digitally.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by hellojesus on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:20PM (#36806178)
Cash likely won't end unless legislatively forced to do so. The anonymity is too valuable.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by sfg on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:29PM (#36807004)
If it does end, Amazon gift vouchers? What would be a better substitute?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tekknik on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:12AM (#36813983)
Why are so many people gleeful at the idea of “cash ending”? What problems does cash cause that have people hating on it so much?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by rowls66 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @01:56PM (#36804185)
Shameless plug, but Moov offers a single API for payments. The clearing house's RTP system will be supported shortly, and FedNow is coming soon after. Check out out here: https://moov.io/
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tracker1 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:10PM (#36804373)
Pricing page is all but worthless... no indication what so ever about what even basic tier pricing is, or could be.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by rabidonrails on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:32PM (#36804662)
Agreed. This is really strange from their pricing page: >> Get started for free to test our APIs & unblock your development team. Talk to us about your transaction volume to get the best pricing with flexibility to grow.

You would think there would _at least_ be a ceiling price. Makes me wonder why they can't show _any_ pricing.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by _jal on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:12PM (#36805317)
Yeah, that's a good one.

"Spend the time and energy to build us into your product first and then we can talk price" is not the most reassuring of pitches.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by Qworg on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:39PM (#36806426)
Not to answer for Moov, but IIRC, they're still open source + a paid option with banking partners.

I think the pricing is weird because you can start (and run!) for free, while the end to end solution requires negotiating with multiple parties.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by matt_s on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:01PM (#36804261)
> cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry

Those middle companies have lobbyist representation and the govt has no intention of cutting any companies out of the payments industry.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tiffanyh on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:33PM (#36804673)
> Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies.

For e-commerce, isn’t that SRC?

https://www.emvco.com/emv-technologies/secure-remote-commerc...

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by finfrastrcuture on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:53PM (#36805028)
that seems like the right answer...

however, the payment itself is almost besides the point. the tricky part is the scheme / governance surrounding payments. who is liable for what, preventing fraud, etc. these large payment actors + the middlemen are more about fostering trust networks than moving the actual dollars and cents.

fraud in P2P payment networks (e.g. Zelle) is already a huge issue because a lack of a governing actor like a card network.[0] a different question is would the government ever provide this mediating role / lay out guidelines? would we want it to?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/business/payments-fraud-z...

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by figassis on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:59PM (#36805145)
This is usually never the way it happens. The government does not make market ending decisions on a whim. It would have already met with the biggest stakeholders and fedNow is likely the result of many considerations and compromises. Visa will likely not be threatened any time soon.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by cubefox on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:50PM (#36809465)
Yeah. Unlike UPI in India, FedNow is not mandatory for anyone. But companies could still offer "discounts" to customers when they use FedNow, as they save on credit card fees.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by Onewildgamer on Friday July 21, 2023 @01:33AM (#36810327)
UPI is not mandatory in India, don't know where and why such a message circulates. If I am benefitting with Credit Cards at petrol pumps, I deliberately use it and there's no concern from anybody. Merchants prefer UPI (for now) because money goes to their bank account without any cost. And cash still works at most places where UPI does.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by instagraham on Friday July 21, 2023 @05:31AM (#36811813)
Companies with large turnovers (above Rs 50 crore - 6$ million) are mandated to have a route to accept digital payments

https://incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circul...

Besides this, stakeholders/partners of the NPCI are mandated to offer UPI services. I'm not sure if signing up was optional, but it would honestly be suicidal for a bank not to, given that there are so many competitors offering the same.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by Onewildgamer on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:39PM (#36832360)
I can see why that's the case for high turnover companies. It is to track and reduce money laundering and tax evasion. Also, it has become a no brainer for any consumer facing company to not provide UPI as an option.

I keep appreciating the regulations in India, it is overall supportive of the common man. From say SEBI regulations on derivative markets to digital payments. For eg. credit cards are becoming less frequent, people here won't take out their cards for every other expense. People have become aware of the fact that money at the end is in bank and spending from the bank account hits much more real than a 30 day stream of cash 3-4 times your salary handed to you whenever you need. And so, low income and middle income groups spend wisely and don't get caught in spend cycles above their capacity.

Such an angle goes unappreciated, but hopefully this continues and money still be real and in our pocket.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by colechristensen on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:00PM (#36805168)
No. This is an interface for banks to settle between themselves.

A bank does not want to interact with you in the same channel as it interacts with another bank.

What there will be are services provided by banks which utilize this for instant transfers.

The middle companies between transfers you want. Most of the actual work is fraud prevention and dispute resolution... unless you want the only means of settling a dispute is through the courts.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by mavili on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:33PM (#36805581)
> This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry

Not really. All it will do is let the same companies change the way they handle average citizens' payments.

It's the same as Open Banking in Europe. It is supposed allow small businesses to leverage this to enable innovation and all that stuff, but when you want to use these APIs you find there are limitations on who can actually use it. For example, you can only put your service to production by being on a "directory" of approved providers, and to be on that directory you need something 25k or 50k in an account. So, not really that useful for a small startup wanting to make a product out of it.

Banking systems are the backbone of world power dominance, big players won't let small people share it.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by adventured on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:20PM (#36806166)
It's not particularly difficult for a small start-up to come up with $25,000 in the US.

That's modest angel investor money in a small city.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by yieldcrv on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:24PM (#36806944)
Aside from playing devil’s advocate, do you have a sensible reason why it should be this way versus another way?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by kelnos on Thursday July 20, 2023 @06:19PM (#36807530)
I would assume such a system is capable of facilitating fraud, so it's probably good to have some kind of financial hurdle you have to jump in order to use it? Not that having $25k or $50k is a guarantee that you aren't a fraudster, but I imagine there are a lot of would-be fraudsters who don't have that kind of cash on hand.

I do think this is a bit of a weak justification, though.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by twosdai on Friday July 21, 2023 @12:02AM (#36809853)
Funny enough this appears at face value to be the same idea behind proof of stake concensus protcals.... lololol
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by ric2b on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:24AM (#36812136)
So basically the Twitter Blue argument. If scammers can make more than 50k out of it, they'll pay it gladly.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by amadeuspagel on Friday July 21, 2023 @07:07AM (#36812389)
The few scammers that make more then 50k out of it can be caught manually.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by tacocataco on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:49AM (#36814456)
Wouldn't people who steal money have more money then people who dont?
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by ncallaway on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:43PM (#36806474)
> So, not really that useful for a small startup wanting to make a product out of it.

I mean, 50k puts it out of “a couple people starting something in their garage”, but it doesn’t really lock out much beyond that. That’s pretty close to the franchise fee for opening a McDonald’s.

Yes, it could be more equitable, but if that’s the only barrier to access, it’s… pretty open for even quite small businesses.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by civilitty on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:34PM (#36807065)
50k is small peanuts, even for a friends and family round. I’d expect any startup dealing with banking transactions on my or my businesses’s behalf to have at least that much in a bond or escrowed away for counterparty risk.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by thrashh on Friday July 21, 2023 @03:19AM (#36810947)
50k is nothing. That’s not even the salary for one person in a year.

If you can’t scrounge together $50k to start a banking business, you probably should not be starting a banking business.

Bruh, I could get $50k right now if I go through a line of credit for small businesses as a regular person.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by mavili on Saturday July 22, 2023 @07:20AM (#36825289)
A lot of people complain that 50k isn't much of a hurdle. Yes, I also agree that I as an individual can actually get that loan tomorrow if I want, but the point is "open" banking is meant to open up opportunities and should have as little hurdles as possible and the 50k is just one example.

Look into going into the business and you will realise other hurdles like having some insurance that will cost you tens of thousands, and more costs. When you compare that to, say, creating an app and putting it up on an app store, we can agree that there is a huge difference.

Of course I understand that banking means playing with people's money and therefore measures need to be put in place. But instead of requiring financial assets maybe the 'measure' should all be around technology and your service will need to have gone through extensive testing to ensure it won't be exploited. Otherwise 50k is peanuts like someone said when it comes to covering any financial loss incurred if your service is messed up. So that 50k is just to filter out a huge majority of individuals wanting to create something for themselves.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by _praf on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:18PM (#36806149)
Column is building API's for our direct integration with FedNow: https://column.com/fednow/

The network of banks supporting FedNow is still small, so we may not see meaningful payment volume for a while compared to ACH, Wires, Checks, etc.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by toomuchtodo on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @09:39PM (#36887773)
That you for staying true to your word!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31114620

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by Qworg on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:38PM (#36806409)
Even when offered a more competitive option, consumers love credit cards - the merchant gets soaked, while they get cash back. Given how the networks are, you'd have to have an unprecedented collusion of merchants to break the credit networks open.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by patmorgan23 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @07:28PM (#36808200)
Credit cards also have really good consumer protection laws around them. I have 30 days to report any fraudulent transactions and on my card and the bank MUST give me my money back.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by scarface_74 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:18PM (#36809276)
Every single study shows that people spend more when using credit cards than when using cash.
Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by pbmonster on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:09AM (#36812053)
> consumers love credit cards - the merchant gets soaked, while they get cash back

It's never the merchant that gets hosed. It's the people not using credit cards.

Because, of course, the merchant just takes his banking expenses and forwards them right back to all customers by increasing prices across the board.

And it's not only the people not using credit cards that get hosed. Even the people with credit cards lose out - because the cash back is practically always smaller than the fee the merchant payed and forwarded to the customer.

As always, the real winner is only the bank. There's a reason for the market cap of MasterCard and Visa...

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by TheBengaluruGuy on Thursday July 20, 2023 @07:50PM (#36808364)
> Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies. Would be great if the Federal Government could intervene in some way to have Visa / Mastercard / American Express / Discover use the same API interface for payments. Would dramatically increase competition for providers.

If FedNow can fit in with ApplePay, then it can displace credit cards in the first place! The corollary I’m drawing, is from India where “UPI” payments (something similar to FedNow) was launched about 7 years ago and today is the more dominant payment mode than credit cards.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by cubefox on Thursday July 20, 2023 @10:25PM (#36809320)
> Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies.

FedNow can replace credit cards for cases where chargeback or actual credit isn't necessary. So for many ordinary cashless payments.

Arguably even for many cases (small to medium amounts of money) where the possibility of chargeback seems useful FedNow could be better in expectation, because the fees are lower. The credit card companies are making money after all. Using them for chargeback is like buying insurance for things you can replace out of pocket: On average, you make a loss.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by nailer on Friday July 21, 2023 @01:54AM (#36810439)
> This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry (or at least put pressure on lowering fees). That would be a huge win. > Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies.

I have no idea about fednow but you can directly transfer an unlimited amount of USDC to someone in about a second for $0.0025 right now on Solana.

Re:Fed Opens Service That Dramatically Speeds Up U.S. Payments by nailer on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:38AM (#36812210)
$0.000025, ahem.