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Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:53AM (#36786367)
I started building out tools to track congressional stock trading in 2020.

Since then, I believe there have been 9 other proposals similar to this one. None of them have been even called to a vote.

It seem like Congress is pretty unwilling to regulate its own trading.

Until they are, feel free to track the trading here: https://www.quiverquant.com/congresstrading/

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by samsolomon on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:22AM (#36786850)
Love the font choice! Never heard of Rubik, but I like stocky letters with a tall x-height. Kind of reminds me of Colfax.

https://processtypefoundry.com/fonts/colfax/

I might add the following for a slightly crisper look:

    text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;
    -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:33AM (#36787036)
Thanks! Appreciate the suggestion, I'll check out how that looks.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by nashashmi on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:40AM (#36787166)
* * *
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:09AM (#36787740)
How so? One, there are no district-specific rules for members of Congress. But even assuming states are legally able to restrict federal officials' trading, why is it better to have some states regulate it and some states not compared to a consistent federal rule one way or the other? "Good people won't run for Senate if we don't let them trade stocks on the information they get" doesn't really make that much sense to me.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by nashashmi on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:53AM (#36788438)
Apparently there was a state rule for the NJ senator that he could not run for president while in senate. They changed it for Cory Booker. So apparently it is possible to add rules for senators and congressman.

There are safeguards we can add and perplexity to trading stock for congressmen. One such rule is the disclosure rule. This makes it a slight pain to invest. A second rule I propose is committee conflict rule, declare stocks that are in conflict with a committee hearing, and offer recusal to the chair each time on a hearing with a potential conflict. A third rule is prohibition on potential stock trades after a committee hearing for 90 days or until hearing is published. And do not disclose details of the hearing with anyone until it is published.

These rules add pains and discouragement to stock trades. But outright bans are not there.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ed_balls on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:22AM (#36786844)
TBH will the regulation change much? If congressmen won't be allow to own stock, they will use proxy (wife, siblings, parents, in-laws).
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:31AM (#36787008)
I think that if there were a law in place that made it illegal for congressmen to trade, it would be easier to catch insider trading because they would be forced to trade by proxy like you mentioned.

It's really hard to prove someone traded off of insider information if they make a decision to buy/sell for themselves. If they don't tell anyone else why they made the trade, you don't really have any proof that it was made off of material non-public information.

If a congressman is forced to ask someone else to trade for them, they might be careless and you might be able to find evidence via text messages or phone records.

The last time a U.S. Representative got convicted for insider trading, it was because he called his son to tell him to trade a stock that he had insider information on: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-congressman-chri...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:51AM (#36787372)
One thing I've always wondered about this is how to handle circumstantial evidence. Let's say you have a relative who may have insider information on a stock. You talk sometimes but not regularly. They call you (as they occasionally do) the day before you trade a stock and it performs favorably within a short time period.

Are you now in a position where you have to prove a negative? Are there people in prison right now because of exactly this type of occurrence, or is it so circumstantial that it's not even pursued unless there is additional evidence, e.g. you always buy $500-1k in stock but after this call you buy $10k in options or something.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @03:57PM (#36792280)
According to one of my finance professors in university, it's somewhat tough to actually get convicted for insider trading, and there are certain circles where everyone does it.

The people who do get convicted are usually those who were being particularly egregious or who pissed someone off enough to rat them out. For example, Martha Stewart got convicted because her assistant (whom she regularly called a "little shit") decided to testify against her.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ng12 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:39AM (#36787163)
SEC regulations generally apply equally to family members you make financial decisions for. You can still probably get away with it but the SEC has ammo if you get brazen.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by cscurmudgeon on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:34AM (#36787069)
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by whyenot on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:44AM (#36787260)
Kerry's wife, Theresa Heinz is estimated to have net worth of $750m or more. Is it really a stretch to think that she might be the one who owns the private jet?
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by cscurmudgeon on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @03:04PM (#36791574)
Thats not the point at all lol. (Also, why should normal folks have to keep track of how much his wife has?)

The point is repeatedly emphasizing that "personally" he doesn't have a plane meanwhile repeatedly using his wife's plane while being the "Special Presidential Envoy for Climate".

https://www.usglc.org/positions/special-presidential-envoy-f...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mhardcastle on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:48AM (#36787340)
People respond to incentives. If you make something harder, people will do less of it.

New barriers include: the actual work of moving money around to and from friends and family and directing trades, counterparty risks in doing so (e.g. sibling dies and leaves money to someone else or takes the money and runs), tax complications, or reputational risk if found to be violating "spirit of the law" that might harm election odds. There are surely more frictions and barriers like these that I'm not capturing.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by rwmj on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:56AM (#36786412)
Does a "Congress tracker fund" make money? What with all the rumoured insider trading ...
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by carabiner on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:38AM (#36787137)
AOC claimed the insider trading is an open secret in Congress because:

* Congress members don't get paid much and like money.

* They are often old with healthcare issues. Their govt health plans are not great.

* They maintain two residences, one in DC and one in their home state. AOC rents an apartment in NYC that she never lives in and one in DC. This is a huge expense.

Closing this privilege might have other unintended effects... Only the very wealthy can afford to be in Congress.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ericmcer on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:48AM (#36787337)
They are complaining because they have to live where they work? What a hardship that no one else faces…
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by jakelazaroff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:52AM (#36787408)
These are different problems, right?

> Congress members don't get paid much and like money.

They're paid $174,000 per year. [1] That's 3–4x the median US salary. I know it's not, like, lucrative, but if they wanted a lucrative salary they should have gotten a different job!

> They are often old with healthcare issues. Their govt health plans are not great.

Fix the government health plan. Or better yet, make it a public health plan available to everyone!

> They maintain two residences, one in DC and one in their home state. AOC rents an apartment in NYC that she never lives in and one in DC. This is a huge expense.

There are only 541 of these people (plus aides, etc). The government should have an official building for sitting Congresspeople to live in. Like a dorm, but for electeds!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_Uni...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mcpackieh on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:13AM (#36787799)
> They're paid $174,000 per year. [1] That's 3–4x the median US salary. I know it's not, like, lucrative, but if they wanted a lucrative salary they should have gotten a different job!

They could also vote themselves a higher salary, but I guess they realize that would be very unpopular with the general public who, for the most part, get paid far less than politicians. The complaint essentially boils down to spoiled brats whining about wanting to be part of the economic elite. For most of the public, this complaint falls on deaf ears, particularly when it's coming from people who already have a great deal of power and are insulated from the realities of life experienced by most of the people they're ostensibly meant to be representing.

"Boo hoo, I already earn 3-4x more than most people in my state and belong to an elite class of policy makers but I'm so impoverished and oppressed because the billionaires have bigger houses than me :("

Honestly more insufferable than Marie Antoinette.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by tracker1 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:00PM (#36790562)
Not when you need to have two residences, one of which in a location well above the average cost of living (DC).
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by jakelazaroff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:29PM (#36791039)
Yes, I covered that. The government should provide housing in DC for Congresspeople and aides. We don’t need to be okay with insider trading.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:02AM (#36787598)
"We should allow members of Congress to trade stocks using insider information so that poor people can afford to run for Congress" (which costs a million bucks, give or take) is certainly an interesting take.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by bee_rider on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:02AM (#36787607)
That seems like a good argument for raising their salaries. Increasing the candidate pool beyond the independently wealthy is good, but letting them do a little crime is a bad way of increasing the candidate pool.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by aketchum on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:07AM (#36786591)
I think there is a delay on stock disclosures, like they only have to disclose purchase/sale once a quarter or something which makes it hard to profitably copy their trading.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by thrtythreeforty on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:11AM (#36786665)
But it could be backtested, which I think is the point - "is the supposed insider trading actually profitable for Congress members?"
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:40AM (#36787179)
You can see the backtest performance of some of some strategies built around congressional trading data here: https://www.quiverquant.com/strategies/

The holdings and advanced metrics are behind a paywall (apologies in advance).

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by philipov on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:18AM (#36786783)
I think I recall someone doing that analysis and posting about it on HN, but I don't remember what the conclusion was.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by RajT88 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:23AM (#36786865)
There's been articles which did the math before. Several - really every few years someone takes another pass at it.

They do well. Generally, retiring their tenure wealthier than their congressional salary would allow at a 100% savings rate.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by andsoitis on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:33AM (#36787042)
I think the question is really whether they’re trading, say, outperform an index fund of the S&P 500?
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by formerly_proven on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:32AM (#36787022)
> Second, we conduct the first analysis of members’ portfolio holdings, showing that between 2004 and 2008 the average member of Congress would have earned higher returns in a passive index fund.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1017/s0022381613000194

> For all trades reported electronically and on paper, the buys and sells have the same pattern; they underperform slightly for the first few months and then outperform the market after 150 days by less than 1 percent, which is not statistically significant. Otherwise, the returns of the buys and sells appear to be relatively random.

> The results show that neither Democrat nor Republican senators are especially skilled at picking stocks to buy.

https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2020/04/us-senators-stock-pi...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:07AM (#36787691)
Honestly a 100% savings rate isn't terribly hard when all your campaign costs are covered, your travel is covered, your office expenses are covered, and lobbyists or donors pick up the tab on a lot of miscellaneous things. Even assuming zero fraud/abuse/illegality, given that you typically already need to be at least moderately successful financially to run for federal office it's not crazy to think that most members of Congress probably already have paid off cars, paid off or close to paid off homes, etc. Not to mention spouses that probably also have very good paying jobs given the connections you're likely to already have by the time you're running.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by jjoonathan on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:59AM (#36786457)
NANC and KRUZ are the ticker symbols (I wish I was joking)
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by smallerfish on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:12AM (#36786671)
Interesting that NANC is doing so much better than KRUZ. Any ideas why?
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by nordsieck on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:18AM (#36786775)
> Interesting that NANC is doing so much better than KRUZ. Any ideas why?

Presumably because they're on different committees. Or have different friends.

Just like existing law, pending legislation is too vast for any one person to know it all.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:19AM (#36786800)
Nancy Pelosi holds a ton of Microsoft stock, I believe up to $25M last time I checked.

I haven't checked the NANC holdings, but her Microsoft position has definitely been carrying our Nancy Pelosi Strategy on Quiver.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:05AM (#36786558)
Pretty small out-of-sample window, but we built a trading strategy on top of congressional trading data and it's done well since we launched it last year.

You can see the backtest performance here, but the holdings and advanced metrics are behind a paywall (apologies in advance): https://www.quiverquant.com/strategies/

As others have pointed out, there is a delay between when the trades are made and when they are disclosed and our strategy is able to act on them.

However, this is somewhat countered by the fact that politicians tend to hold stocks for long periods of time.

There are definitely some examples of politicians trading a stock right before a massive market moving event, but I think they are generally looking at a longer time horizon when they are investing.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by andrewmutz on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:42AM (#36787222)
We should not expect it to beat the market, since legislators themselves don't beat the market:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...

> We find no evidence of superior investment performance whether we look in aggregate or at Senators specifically accused of informed trading. Over a six-month horizon, stocks bought by House Members underperform on average by 26 basis points, while stocks sold underperform by 11 basis points.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by smcin on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:00AM (#36786460)
Sen Cynthia Loomis (R-WY) [EDIT: 'Lummis'] doesn't show up on the list (for stocks), is she still the biggest crypto trader?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/congresss-crypto-traders-t...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:08AM (#36786597)
The list on the homepage just shows recent transactions.

You can search for individuals on top to see their full transaction list. Lummis bought up to $100K of Bitcoin in 2021: https://www.quiverquant.com/congresstrading/politician/Cynth...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by smcin on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:22AM (#36786854)
I had already searched your site and found nothing. But that was because I misspelled her name as 'Loomis' not 'Lummis'.

Anyway when I search under correct name, I only find 2 trades, from 2021. She really had no other trades?

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ckardat123 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:51AM (#36787388)
Yeah looks like it.

Here's where you can search for the source disclosures - only seeing two trades on her periodic transaction reports: https://efdsearch.senate.gov/search/

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by carabiner on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:07AM (#36786583)
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by jakearmitage on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:19AM (#36786798)
I wish there was a tool that allowed me to follow Congress as if it was an index. Automatically buying and selling what they buy and sell. Right from my Fidelity or something.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by nickpeterson on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:29AM (#36786974)
If it got popular enough, congressmen would heavily buy a stock their spouse has short term options on, why not?
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by minkzilla on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:03AM (#36787625)
NANC and KRUZ ETFs track democrats and republican holdings respectively. A word of caution: there are articles online that have looked at individual senators and most of them unperformed compared to the SP500
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by shagmin on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:56AM (#36788479)
Someone with some spare cash for seed funding could file with the SEC to create an ETF that does exactly this.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by PartiallyTyped on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:08AM (#36786610)
Unusualwhales (not affiliated) does that too!
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by gjsman-1000 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:50AM (#36787366)
For me, I'm not sure why there is a "Ms. Nancy Pelosi," and a "Nancy Pelosi," that both have trade activity.

(Nancy Pelosi is interesting. She entered Congress worth about ~3-4 million. Now she is worth $100 million, give or take $20 million depending on the estimate. Interesting. I'm not saying it's Insider Trading, but the probability...)

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:12AM (#36787786)
Pelosi is literally the poster-child for Congressional insider trading.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by HWR_14 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:11PM (#36789810)
Wow, Nancy Pelosi is interesting. She entered Congress 36 years ago. If she put $3MM in the S&P index when she joined Congress, and never touched it, it would be worth $108.66MM today. If anything, that's a clear argument she isn't insider trading. I always assumed she was a huge inside trader making a ton of money.

Meanwhile, her husband is a VC, and probably makes a good deal of money for them as well.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by carlmr on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:44PM (#36794544)
>and never touched it,

Didn't she touch it though? A lot of people would be multimillionaires if they only put money in and never took money out.

The question is, with what she did invest, and the money she did take out, would she still be that wealthy.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by HWR_14 on Thursday July 20, 2023 @12:25AM (#36796882)
I have no idea if she touched it. Her husband makes a lot of money and she makes a good amount as well.

Also, that's the lower bound by what people estimated she had when she entered congress and close to the upper bound of what she would be worth today.

But it's entirely possible that someone in the SF area with a SV husband beat the S&P without resorting to insider trading on public markets. Heck, the house she bought has probably beaten the S&P.

To reiterate, I always assumed she was insider trading. These numbers are making me question that.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by carlmr on Friday July 21, 2023 @02:47AM (#36810749)
My point is rather, if she had invested all her money back then and if she never used any of it she would have a similar amount of money now without insider trading.

Most people don't lump sum in the market like that, it probably ignores the taxes she would have to pay if she took the money out now, and most people use some of the money in the meantime.

I'm just saying if you lived a good lifestyle, the money is already mostly taxed, and you didn't invest everything all-at-once, and you still have the amount of money you would get with lump-sum and never touch S&P, you're doing far far better than the market.