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Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by dudus on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:16PM (#36763449)
Miyazaki's new movie "The boy and the heron" was released just last week in Japan. Not sure when it's coming to the west but it's the first movie by Miyazaki since 2013.

It's also quite unique in the sense that there was no trailer or marketing for this movie. Even in Japan.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by glandium on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:31PM (#36763645)
"The boy and the heron" is quite removed from the original title, 君たちはどう生きるか, which would be "How do you live?" (plural you)
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by bozhark on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:37PM (#36763709)
How do yous live?

or

How do we live?

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by akprasad on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:39PM (#36763732)
"you" (plural) as in "you all," since "you" can also refer to just one person now that "thou" is no longer used [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by JohnBooty on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:05PM (#36764068)
Do you have any (linguistic) insight into why they changed the name for release outside of Japan?

One certainty is that it references a Japanese book also entitled "How Do You Live?" that would likely be unknown outside of Japan.

However, I was wondering if it was also an issue of connotation. The question, "How do you live?" can have a rather negative connotation in US English. It carries an accusatory connotation, as if the asker has a negative view of the subject's life or conduct and wants to know how the subject can bear to live or act in such a way.

But I suspect that in Japanese, it may be a more literal and connotation-free question?

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by ChainOfFools on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:39PM (#36764458)
I'm going to guess that for an English speaking market, there is a certain expectation for Miyazaki movies that has to do with whimsicality, children and some sort of anthropomorphized animal. and so that's the title format that they believe will sell better.

Americans in particular are likely to be put off by something that sounds like it's questioning their life decisions.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by anigbrowl on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:53PM (#36764595)
Americans in particular are likely to be put off by something that sounds like it's questioning their life decisions.

I think this 'good vibes only' aspect of US society is a side-effect of the country being only a few hundred years old and never having dealt with any real existential catastrophe. 9/11 is probably the closest thing to one the US has undergone, and I don't think the country has handled it that well.

Edit: I considered the Civil War, but internal strife is simply not the same as an external/natural disaster that overtakes the whole country.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by eslaught on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:03PM (#36764683)
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by Swizec on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:19PM (#36764850)
As a European from a country that lived under foreign rule (with varying levels of self-governance) from about 900 AD to 1991 ... lol. Self-inflicted existential catastrophes just don't quite hit the same.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by anthk on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:50PM (#36765158)
In Spain we got three or four "officially" since 1492-1512 or 1714 depending on how the modern Spain it's stated. One of them with a dictator lasting down to 1975. Go back to the Iberian kingdoms and the fun starts back to the Romans and before.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by nonethewiser on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:50PM (#36765161)
The civil war was an existential threat.

Im also curious what existential threat in say the UK shapes peoples world views today? And more specifically How it crushes optimism?

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by anigbrowl on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:21PM (#36765469)
I've already explained why I omitted the civil war. WW2 presented an existential threat to the K, prior to that, the country had experienced multiple partial or complete takeovers by foreign powers every few centuries, going back to the Romans.

I didn't say anything about 'crushing optimism.' Good vibes only is a contemporary American idiom that essentially says 'don't bother me with any negative opinions.' This can be a mild desire to socialize with chilled out people, or breezy way of indicating you don't give a shit about other people.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by bugglebeetle on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:31PM (#36766175)
Nope, it’s the legacy of Protestant Ideology and specifically ideas like Calvinist predestination. Everything is the result of God’s will made manifest in the world, so questioning it is sacrilegious. The rich and powerful are rich and powerful because God ordained them elect and so on and other such bullshit.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by UncleOxidant on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:43PM (#36765092)
As an American I didn't read "how do you live?" as being somehow accusatory. I read it more in the sense of "what are the best known practices for living?". I didn't get any negative connotations from the title/question.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by Blikkentrekker on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:46PM (#36764514)
Titles are very frequently changed, this is because titles are supposed to sound catchy and what sounds catchy in one language often does not in another. Spirited Away in Japanese was also literally more so “Sen and Tihiro's mysterious disappearance. The Vanishing*'s original Dutch title was “trail-less” literally, which sounds good in Dutch, but very poor in English though I suppose “without a trail” would work.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by greybox on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:56PM (#36764626)
I had a Japanese teacher who liked to talk about how surprised she was about the title in English.

She also gave me a little insight into the word 神隠し which, apparently comes from a saying. When children used to go missing, people used to say that "God snatched them away", which is why the first kanji 神 is 'god'.

Her translation of the title was "God snatched sen & chihiro away" which of course isn't a literal translation, but I thought it was interesting

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by lupus9 on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:26PM (#36764923)
"In Japanese folklore, spiriting away (Japanese: Kamikakushi (神隠し), lit. 'hidden by kami') refers to the mysterious disappearance or death of a person, after they had angered the gods (kami). There are numerous legends of humans being abducted to the spirit world by kami." [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_away?wprov=sfti1

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by Blikkentrekker on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:58PM (#36765236)
It should be noted that “神” can probably better be translated as “spirit” in many contexts, and denotes a wide variety of supernatural beings, which actually makes “spirited away” an interesting choice.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by GolDDranks on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:11PM (#36765372)
Not the grandparent poster, but... I don't have any linguistic insight (there were some, with the sister posts about "How do you live" sounding condescending in English?), but a practical one.

I just saw the film last Sunday. The title "How do you live" has hardly any strong connection to the contents of the film. The film doesn't pose that question to the audience. The film doesn't much seem to explore the theme. (A little? Maybe, but not to the extent one would expect from the title.) The titular book by Yoshino Genzaburo (whose plot has no overt resemblance to the movie's plot) appears on the screen briefly, and one could guess that it'll prove a "Chekhov's gun" kind of an item, but this trope is entirely averted.

I think that it is only through a "meta" lense that sees the film as an autobiographical work, with a Miyazaki self-insert as two different characters (Mahito and the great uncle), that the title starts to make sense. It is Miyazaki's attempt to _answer_ the question – in the scope and perspective of his own life and work.

I doubt that this perspective would be readily available for an American viewer. They are unlikely to know the book and they are unlikely to be aware what kind of a person Miyazaki is, what is his connection to Ghibli, his movies and to his son Goro, something a Japanese viewer is much more likely to be aware through various interviews, documentaries and news coverage. Miyazaki has called this movie his "testament" to his grandson, and this certainly makes you consider these things.

If anything, the title "How do you live" would be misleading and disappointing to an American viewer. It makes the film sound more philosophical than what they are going to walk away with.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by jonny_eh on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:07PM (#36764103)
> But I suspect that in Japanese, it may be a more literal and connotation-free question?

I think you're right. In English there's already the phrase "How can you live with yourself?!".

The name for the Western release is from the original book the movie is based on, so it's not inappropriate.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by jondwillis on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:39PM (#36763731)
y’all
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by qbasic_forever on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:55PM (#36764613)
How do yinz live?
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by s0rr0wskill on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:59PM (#36764650)
how do y'all live
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by echelon on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:52PM (#36765813)
Y'all is a great translation for kimi-tachi.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by PhileasNietzche on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:18PM (#36764845)
"The Boy and the Heron" couldn't be considered inflammatory to Western audiences plagued by guilt as opposed to presenting them with a question loosely meaning, "how do you live with yourself?".
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by anthk on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:48PM (#36765142)
Stop generalizing "The West" as if the West was just the USA. I remember then internet users said that the West didn't get DBZ until 200s where in Europe by ~1995 we already finished DBZ for months both in the manga and the anime.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by heyoni on Monday July 17, 2023 @11:29PM (#36767468)
Europe is in the middle, ok? /s
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by minmax2020 on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @07:19AM (#36770576)
Nuance-wise I think it's better read as "How will you live your life?"
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by UncleOxidant on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:23PM (#36763523)
> it's the first movie by Miyazaki since 2013.

I was going to say "what about The Wind also Rises?"... and then looked it up and it was released in 2013. Hard to believe it's been 10 years.

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by BolexNOLA on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:07PM (#36764097)
Ok so I'm not the only person who accidentally calls it The Wind *Also* Rises!
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by samcheng on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:37PM (#36764432)
Probably confusion with Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by erulabs on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @11:52AM (#36774461)
They do share a theme slightly. Surrender to the state of the world, stoic acceptance and such.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by samplatt on Monday July 17, 2023 @09:11PM (#36766491)
....I've watched the movie like four times and I think this is the first time I've noticed there's not 'also' in the title.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by sn41 on Monday July 17, 2023 @10:43PM (#36767179)
It's "The Wind Rises" - from Paul Valery's famous closing stanza of "Le cimetiere marin" (The Cemetery by the Sea)

"Le vent se lève !… Il faut tenter de vivre !"

"The wind rises... we must try to live"

To me it denotes a sad, stoic acceptance that things are about to go down badly, but we must somehow survive.

(https://www.babelmatrix.org/works/fr/Val%C3%A9ry,_Paul-1871/...)

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by the_af on Monday July 17, 2023 @05:12PM (#36764177)
Same here! I thought The Wind Rises was recent. Is this what old age feels like?
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by lupus9 on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:31PM (#36764987)
>Not sure when it’s coming to the west

Hacker news being an international community, I would say the relevant question is when it’s coming outside Japan. Let’s remember the average person lives neither in Japan / China nor in the west :-D

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by nonethewiser on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:45PM (#36765112)
Average location doesn’t really make sense but the typical hacker news reader probably does live in the West or Japan.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by lupus9 on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:32PM (#36765579)
The use of average was just a joke. My point is that most people in the world live outside Japan and the West (however you want to use that term). Even if most people in hacker news belong to the West (not sure that is true) I do appreciate if the comments don’t take for granted that things are said from a western perspective.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by echelon on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:03PM (#36765295)
Not entirely accurate as it counts only users with accounts that saw this post on a particular day and time and decided to participate:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378

https://ae.studio/random/where-does-hacker-news-live

Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by totetsu on Monday July 17, 2023 @09:25PM (#36766583)
I think the average person lives in Almaty, Kazakhstan
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by JCharante on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @02:58AM (#36768822)
Hacker News feels very dead outside of US/EU timezones so I agree with this.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by erwincoumans on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:44PM (#36765099)
It was a pleasant surprise during our Japan trip and we went to watch 'How do you live' in the Toho Cinema Shinjuku on the second day. Very beautiful and touching movie, even with very limited Japanese skills.
Re:Miyazaki has used the art of animation to study the major... by dang on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:58PM (#36765234)
Recent and related:

Hayao Miyazaki’s How Do You Live is a beautiful relic – and the end of an era - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36760469 - July 2023 (74 comments)

Studio Ghibli to release Miyazaki’s final film with no trailers or promotion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36314647 - June 2023 (12 comments)