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Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by favflam on Sunday July 09, 2023 @12:48PM (#36656086)
The only cash flows into the ecosystem have been from ICOs. The SEC is cracking down on such activities.

Besides investment cash flow, I don't think there have been any revenue generating ventures that cater to customers outside the Web3 ecosystem.

The true web3 players will be traditional finance companies upgrading their settlement systems.

I am curious how people will answer your second question.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by Animats on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:12PM (#36656334)
> The true web3 players will be traditional finance companies upgrading their settlement systems.

That happens in the US this month, but it has nothing to do with crypto. The Federal Reserve System is launching FedNow, a 24/7 instant settlement system which obsoletes middlemen such as Zelle, Paypal, and Venmo. This is like Pix in Brazil, SEPA in the EU, WePay in China, etc. - a fast payment system run by banks and settled through central banks.

It's much like FedWire, but faster, cheaper, and for smaller amounts. You buy houses with FedWire; you buy dinner with FedNow. It's an inter-bank system, like Visa; you have to have an account with a bank to use it. Chase and Wells Fargo are on board, but Bank of America is not.

This will bring the US up to date with the other countries that have national payment systems.

Anybody in the US involved in moving money around needs to get up to speed on FedNow. Fast.

[1] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by elwebmaster on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:32PM (#36656616)
Sounds like ACH
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:35PM (#36656674)
Just for the regular Joe.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by Animats on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:51PM (#36656908)
It is like ACH, but it settles in seconds, rather than in hours.

The current "same day" ACH schedule is that payments that make into the day's batch must be received at the Fed by 4:45 p.m. ET, a target file distribution time of 5:30 p.m. ET, and a settlement time of 6:00 p.m. ET. It's all batch files.

Anything that re-bills periodically will remain on ACH. ACH handles requests to debit someone else's account with ACH, and they can undo that later. That runs on a 3-day cycle. FedNow has to be initiated from the money sender end.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by 26fingies on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:15PM (#36656359)
one of the really nice things about SEPA is the 0-fee instant transfer (ime 45-60 seconds). Will FedNow be able to do the same thing?
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:26PM (#36656532)
Crypto is 1-2 seconds for about 0.0025 USD worldwide right now.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:35PM (#36656667)
Which crypto? Where can I pay with it? What if I don't want to have a hardware wallet everywhere with me? Can I cancel transactions and get my money back? Does it use more energy per year than Argentina?
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Sunday July 09, 2023 @05:35PM (#36659163)
Good questions.

Solana is the largest of the cheap/fast networks (I’ve worked in Solana for a year), but Aptos and Sui also have solid tech.

You use Safari on your iPhone and unlock your wallet with FaceID.

Right now physical stores that take USDC are generally luxury goods marketplaces, physical art galleries, and PC hardware marketplaces.

No you can’t cancel transactions after you’ve made them, however there are escrow services that provide similar facilities for a small fee.

No it’s proof of stake so the environment is fine.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by ix-ix on Sunday July 09, 2023 @06:27PM (#36659619)
Oops, during your transfer the value of the currency is now 80% of what it was!
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Monday July 10, 2023 @08:15AM (#36665244)
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Monday July 10, 2023 @05:38AM (#36663985)
This sounds promising, I'll get back to you in 10 years.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Monday July 10, 2023 @08:13AM (#36665228)
A completely reasonable reply. There’s a lot of good tech around, it’s definitely better than HN’s 2017-era crypto knowledge, but it’s not evenly distributed at all. I agree the proof will be in a decade.

Personally I jumped into Linux when it was a joke and everyone used Solaris, Python when it was a joke and everyone used Perl, and virtualisation when nobody would ever use it outside testing. I know I’m early in crypto. I hope it will work out but there’s no guarantees on anything.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by troupo on Tuesday July 11, 2023 @03:12PM (#36685891)
> There’s a lot of good tech around

You mean Solana which has to take its network offline every two weeks or so [1] because it can't cope with yet another error/ddos/misconfiguration/what not?

[1] exaggeration.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by growt on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:34PM (#36656652)
Really? What crypto exactly and how?
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by 26fingies on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:38PM (#36657489)
yea well i pay people in money not crypto
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by Animats on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:43PM (#36656784)
The Fed will charge banks a fee of $0.045 per transaction.[1]

Transactions take a few seconds. They must finish within 20 seconds or they time out, and they're expected to take much less time. Here's a technical overview.[2]

The bank to Fed to bank API uses IBM MQ and ISO 20022. These are a bit dated but widely used in the financial sector. Down at the bottom, it's XML.

[1] https://www.frbservices.org/resources/fees/fednow-2023

[2] https://explore.fednow.org/resources/technical-overview-guid...

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by mdaniel on Sunday July 09, 2023 @04:19PM (#36658453)
Thank you for posting the actual technical pdf, that was interesting reading

> Certificate-Based Authentication

Heh, so I can look forward to the biennial banking outage as they forget to renew their certs :-D

But in seriousness, I have some experience with x509 auth from the early days of kubernetes using it and unless the system has some robust CRL mechanisms I look forward to knowing how such a scheme will deauthorize users

Interestingly, they also seem to be doing belt-and-suspenders since the messages themselves are signed with the private key of the institution, which appears to be registered out of band from the system itself

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by rsynnott on Sunday July 09, 2023 @04:33PM (#36658580)
Dated?! By banking tech standards, ISO 20022 is futuristic magic, a mere decade old. A lot of banks (particularly in the US) would still be using ISO 15022 or even older standards.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:28PM (#36656558)
> The Federal Reserve System is launching FedNow, a 24/7 instant settlement system which obsoletes middlemen such as Zelle, Paypal, and Venmo

So exactly like crypto except US specific.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:32PM (#36656628)
Yeah, except for the fact that regular people will actually be able to use it to buy potatoes using a real currency, not a "currency" that's more volatile than tulip bulbs were in the 1600s.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:00PM (#36657721)
i’m not sure if you’ve use crypto before, but people buy things in USDC all the time.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:09PM (#36657821)
I'm new at this, I need a bag of potatoes. Where can I buy them with USDC?
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Sunday July 09, 2023 @05:47PM (#36659280)
Where can I buy them with Fednow?
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by oblio on Monday July 10, 2023 @05:36AM (#36663973)
Right now, probably nowhere, it's just being introduced.

Afterwards, if it's anything like SEPA, aside from my joke "bag of potatoes" comment, everywhere. In Europe you can make SEPA or SEPA backed transfers almost everywhere.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by nailer on Monday July 10, 2023 @08:10AM (#36665201)
I live in Europe and have never seen a single potato retailer advertise SEPA. Electronic payments are all Visa and Mastercard.
Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:30PM (#36656585)
> The true web3 players will be traditional finance companies upgrading their settlement systems.

1000%. The one place where I think blockchain and crypto can have real utility is from large, legacy financial institutions upgrading their very, very, very antiquated backend settlement technology and processes.

Of course, backend enterprise tech is pretty "boring", and the transition will take many years/decades given that our existing financial system currently depends on these old settlement systems that are based on manual, file based-processes from the first half of the last century. This is not the kind of technology transition likely to attract celebrity endorsements or bubblicious "crypto towns" like Miami and Austin.

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by troupo on Wednesday July 12, 2023 @03:14AM (#36691342)
> The one place where I think blockchain and crypto can have real utility is from large, legacy financial institutions upgrading their very, very, very antiquated backend settlement technology and processes.

And what is the actual utility beyond just the (usually unnecessary) upgrade?

Re:Ask HN: What Happened to Web3 Startups? by david_shi on Sunday July 09, 2023 @06:36PM (#36659705)
You can see the revenue generated by Ethereum here:

https://defillama.com/fees/ethereum

The reason why protocols are able to generate cash flow is precisely because there is demand for blockspace by customers.