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Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by goosedragons on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:16AM (#36654619)
Conversely the fact that you need special fit lenses and a store appointment means its going to be hard to test out and hard to buy. You're probably not going to be able to wander past the Apple store in the mall and take a quick peek in and play with the Vision Pro like you can with their other products like the iPad. Nor will testing your friend's necessarily be a good experience. Plus even in the U.S Apple Store's aren't that common requiring a multi-hour drive to get to in some places.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by giobox on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:38AM (#36654805)
> Plus even in the U.S Apple Store's aren't that common

There are 270+ Apple stores in the US, I don't have the figures to hand but an overwhelming percentage of the country's actual population live within an hour of an Apple store. They are common, frankly.

I'm not defending the decision to require a store visit here, but lets not paint a picture of Apple store availability that doesn't exist. The number of people with disposable income in the US to purchase a 3500 dollar headset and actually want to buy one who aren't living under an hour from an Apple store is likely a very small list.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by bombcar on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:34PM (#36656663)
That’s about one apple store for every twenty Walmarts.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:37PM (#36656703)
I’m not going to drive out of my way to pick up some Rustler jeans.

But I will to buy electronic gear or even to get my right AirPod replace that I dropped in the water when I was on a boat in Cabos…

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by spdif899 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:51PM (#36656903)
Yeah or in my case the apple store becomes a part of a trip, there's not one near my home but there is one near the beach house I rented this year, so when I wanted a better fitting waterproof watch band I just baked a trip to that store into my trip itinerary.

If I were in the target market for the vision pro I would totally schedule an appointment and drive a couple of hours to get a curated experience and feel confident I'd come home with the right combination of lenses and everything.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by FabHK on Monday July 10, 2023 @06:39AM (#36664416)
So, the next Apple Store will be around 4.5 times further than the next Walmart, on average.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by WheatMillington on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:22PM (#36657329)
My nearest apple store is 3 hours away.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:14PM (#36657855)
And there are plenty of people (including my 80 year old parents) who drive 3 hours from their small town in South Georgia to the nearest bigger city to buy products that they want to be able to see instead of our used online.

In my dads case, music gear

I even know people who would drive from the even smaller places than where my parents live who would drive to my home town to go the mall, movies and Olive Garden.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by amelius on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:29AM (#36654713)
> the fact that you need special fit lenses and a store appointment

Sounds like a serious shortcoming if you can't share the device with friends and family.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by Kerbonut on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:36AM (#36654785)
Do you share your iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, AirPods or Apple Watch with friends and family? It’s touted as a work machine first and foremost right? Do you share your work laptop with others? Apple exec logic I’m sure.

I get what you’re saying and it’s hard to describe (and never really does it justice) the experience of this technology. It’s something you have to experience yourself to understand.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by BolexNOLA on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:40AM (#36654829)
It shouldn’t have to be explained that dedicated video game hardware and personal mobile computers have very different use cases and sharing cultures around them.

Do you share the use of your tv with friends and family?

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by kibwen on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:43AM (#36654850)
Regardless of Apple's marketing, for the vast majority of people this will be a media consumption device first and a media creation device second, just like the iPad. And you absolutely share your media consumption devices (television, game consoles, iPads) with your family/housemates.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:18PM (#36656401)
And in a lot of families, parents will buy each child an iPad or a cheaper tablet.

But there will be enough people who will by the headset for them to sell all they can make in the first year.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by chasing on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:44AM (#36654859)
I share my PlayStation and AppleTV with friends and family. And, yeah, my kid regularly uses my iPad and family members definitely use one another’s phones on occasion. Also the Vision Pro is expensive enough that not every family member will get one — if there’s one in the house it sure would be cool if everyone could use it.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by stevenwoo on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:57AM (#36654980)
It sure sounds like anyone in a household can use it but if anyone has a different eyeglass corrective lens prescription (very likely unless everyone still has 20/20 vision) from the primary user it’s a very substandard experience.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by upon_drumhead on Sunday July 09, 2023 @11:39AM (#36655369)
They showed in the demo the switching lenses was easy as they are magnetic.

Likely the upfront issues would be getting everyone their personalized lenses, but actually using seems like it would be easy.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by throwuwu on Sunday July 09, 2023 @12:14PM (#36655748)
They’d better sell a good storage solution for those lenses too otherwise they’re going to get lost or mixed up easily
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by Turing_Machine on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:11PM (#36657832)
Apple already does laser engraving for products bought in the online store. For the price point of this thing, they can probably move engraving into the retail stores (not long ago, I bought a laser engraver for my hobby 3D printer for a few hundred bucks -- they're not expensive, certainly not by Apple Store standards).

As for getting lost, Apple already has their AirTag technology. While I don't know if that's already in these lenses, it doesn't seem like it'd be difficult to add.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by chongli on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:28PM (#36656559)
Even if they’re magnetic and easy to swap, it sounds a LOT clunkier than just handing someone an iPad. People are going to lose the lenses all over the place.

Heck, my dad loses his phone multiple times a week, necessitating a quick phone call to track it down. Are the lenses going to include built-in AirTags so people can locate them?

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:38PM (#36656716)
So how do you propose you make a good experience for people who need prescription glasses?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by chongli on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:44PM (#36656806)
I don’t have a proposal. I’m skeptical of the entire market for this product. I’m taking a wait-and-see approach and I’m looking forward to reading one-year followups from early adopters.

Heck, I’m even skeptical of the iPad. I own one and I use it so seldomly that I have to charge the thing up from 0 every time I use it. But I recognize that a lot of people love them as consumption devices and a few as creation tools for some niche purposes, such as digital painting.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by bee_rider on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:43PM (#36657532)
I suck at optics, and optics is a hard topic, so I say it will full humility: I’m always surprised that headset manufacturer can’t correct for most of these vision issues in software.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by sleepybrett on Sunday July 09, 2023 @04:35PM (#36658602)
i don't think that is at all possible.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by sowbug on Sunday July 09, 2023 @07:28PM (#36660161)
I think you'd need to be able to control the direction of each photon coming out of the screen, so that it landed in the intended place on the retina after going through the misshapen cornea/lens. That's basically what a corrective lens does. Doing it dynamically for each thing we call a pixel indeed sounds like science fiction.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by sleepybrett on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:25AM (#36662078)
you could do it with lasers, using lasers to draw directly on the retina. I don't think there would be any way to do this with a pixelarray type screen.. maybe if you could map each pixel to a point on your retina and then modify the rendering .. maybe. the concept reminds me of a generative art piece that Kyle McDonald built: https://www.fastcompany.com/90167836/disco-meets-computer-vi...

Essentially pile up a bunch of mirrorballs. Point projectors at it. Then map where each pixel from each projector ends up on the walls/ceiling/floors.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:16PM (#36656378)
And my sons bought their own PS4s because they wanted to play online games against each other at the same time and not have to share it.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by bee_rider on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:43PM (#36656782)
I think it is just a weird coincidence, but in this thread price and share-ability seem to be negatively correlated.

Consoles, AppleTV, and iPads are at the lower end of the price range here, right? (Well, you can get an expensive iPad of course).

Laptop are expensive but personal, phones… definitely personal, tend to be a little more expensive maybe?

I dunno, it isn’t a straight line correlation but I don’t think the fact that the Vision Pro is expensive tells us much.

In have a Rift CV1, I enjoyed showing it off to people and got some party-game type things (Keep Talking And Nobody Explodes is great for showing the device off). But I don’t use it much solo, and I’ve shown it off to all my friends already, so I don’t use it much. Don’t get me wrong, it was fun, but it hasn’t integrated into my daily life.

If I were Apple—word of mouth is good, but I’d hope the Vision Pro becomes something that sort of gets embedded in people’s lives to the point where they don’t care to show it off (either because it becomes personal like a laptop, or because it becomes boring like a monitor).

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:47PM (#36656849)
I agree. I’m much more likely to allow someone to borrow a $329 low end iPad than my $1300 iPhone 12 Pro Max.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by bee_rider on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:27PM (#36657369)
Your comment is greyed out as if it was downvoted a bit, which seems quite bizarre to me.

I think we’re pretty clearly talking about a small number of contrary data points, here? I’m not trying to prove a general trend at least, just point out that we should at least double check the assumption that expensive implies shared.

If someone is really invested in that idea I’d love to see an argument for it, rather than silent downvotes.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by fomine3 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @11:51PM (#36661857)
I haven't downvoted but your first post point out that it's negatively correlated. It seems to non correlated. An example is a car shared by family.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Monday July 10, 2023 @05:30PM (#36673240)
I know plenty of middle class parents who bought their teenagers an old beater because they didn’t want them driving the car they needed to get to work or their expensive car.

Wrecking your first car is almost a teenage rite of package.

Again we are talking about people who are willing to spend $3500 on a headset. Not exactly the demographic of people who are “sharing a family car” and that don’t statistically have separate cars for the parents and don’t either buy their kids a car or subsidize them in some way to help them buy their own.

I know I never let either one of my sons drive my car alone and I bought myself a new car and handed my older one down to my older son and bought my younger son a car before he had a license.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by beebeepka on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:44AM (#36654862)
Eh, you have a point. I am not exactly keen on sharing my Valve Index with people because hygiene is important to me. My wife can use it if she wants to.

However, we're talking about a 3500 US dollar (without tax) device and a novelty. Of course people are going to share it if they can.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by usrusr on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:58AM (#36654984)
The iPhone was basically sold by owners showing future owners the pinch zoom and making them try for themselves.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by ajmurmann on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:23PM (#36656466)
I'm in the camp that sees ipads and phones as personal, non-shared devices, but you are hitting the nail on the head here.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by kyriakos on Sunday July 09, 2023 @11:50AM (#36655499)
Ipads are regularly shared in families and vision pro is more expensive than a top range tv which is shared in households. It's a hard sell if if can't be adapted to be used by multiple family members at its price point.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by Shawnj2 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @12:56PM (#36656177)
It’s pretty reasonable to share iPads and Macs between people, especially people who can’t afford individual devices for everyone separately. If I bought a VR headset for $3500 anyone being able to use it would be extremely useful
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:42PM (#36656775)
What’s the overlap of people who can’t afford multiple $330 low end iPads and people willing to spend $3500 on a headset?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by goosedragons on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:55PM (#36656949)
They do sell more expensive iPads. Not exactly unreasonable to want to share a $1000+ nice iPad Pro among a few people rather than buy multiple bottom tier devices.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:04PM (#36657768)
I’m not letting any kids borrow a $1000+ iPad Pro.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by goosedragons on Sunday July 09, 2023 @04:51PM (#36658756)
Who said kids?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by WastingMyTime89 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:03PM (#36657059)
Yes, it’s indeed very common to share iPad with kids and to have a laptop shared amongst family members. That’s why users exist and were such a hugely requested features of iPadOS (something Apple actually took ages to acknowledge because well, Apple).
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by fomine3 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:47PM (#36661461)
Apple doesn't want to share even for iPad, as they don't implement multi user feature (except educational usage). I expect that it's same for Vision Pro, and it seems to natural for me. (I argue iPad should support multi user or guest)
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by doctornoble on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:20PM (#36656425)
You can. The Vision Pro supports a primary user that retains settings/user account/AppleID and a secondary user with gets a “guest” account that resets.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by chongli on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:24PM (#36656481)
How does that work if everyone in your family requires different prescription lenses?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by manojlds on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:42PM (#36657529)
Based on how these work on many existing VR headsets including Quest 2, these are just insets that you can just take out. Probably held magnetically as well.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by cachvico on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:31AM (#36662119)
Interesting - where did you read/see this?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by nomel on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:30PM (#36656592)
As described during the keynote, they’re magnetically held in place. You would need one set per user.

As someone that wears glasses with VR, it’s awful. The light gasket presses against them, gets tangled. The band presses against them. I can see why they didn’t bother making it an option, since I often put my headset away because of the discomfort. This is why the quest pro has optional light blockers, and why I never use mine. Leaving enough room for comfortably wearing glasses would make things huge.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by catchnear4321 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:24AM (#36654681)
the price tag already made this a “not for everyone.”

for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible.

this is a slow game.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by r_hoods_ghost on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:39AM (#36654818)
How on earth is forcing someone to go to a store, probably only in a few select locations far away from where you live, low friction?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by evandale on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:42AM (#36654844)
You left out important context:

> for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible.

Going to a store is not low friction for an enthusiast. We've already established that the price tag shuts out all but the enthusiast.

Apple enthusiasts will do anything to buy Apple products.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:16PM (#36657876)
An Apple enthusiast not willing to go to the Apple Store? When I went to NYC, the Apple Store there is like nerd Mecca with people taking pictures in front of it.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by fomine3 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @11:53PM (#36661875)
That's Apple enthusiast. I think xR enthusiasts (who mildly prefer using Apple products) don't like to visit jammed Apple Store.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by scarface_74 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @11:59PM (#36661903)
Who do you think is going to buy a $3500 Vision Pro if not Apple enthusiasts?
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by fomine3 on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:08AM (#36661964)
Why xR enthusiasts don't? Though population is smaller, I suspect that they want to buy it more than average Apple enthusiasts (for %). They may already imagined use cases. They know that equip HMD is okay. xR sometimes needs enough big room but Apple enthusiasts haven't prepared for it.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by catchnear4321 on Monday July 10, 2023 @09:10AM (#36665845)
you underestimate apple enthusiasts. they may not have already prepared, but the device isn’t already out.

besides, not all apple enthusiasts are wealthy. some will prepare last minute, by selling furniture to make space and help fund the headset. it doesn’t matter if that sounds silly, if it happens.

this is why apple goes slow. bring the ecosystem enthusiast to the object by attempting to integrate the object into the ecosystem first. start with the most eager, guide them in, let them deal with the growing pains, convert enough to full believers in the new object.

public-ish beta with an exclusive-ish signup fee.

apple isn’t merely training enthusiasts in how to use a headset. they are training fans that sell product. enthusiasts talk. easiest way into the ecosystem is with a guide, and even better if that’s a friend or loved one not getting paid to do so.

the least important part about this product is the product. it’s expanding the ecosystem into new territory. show apple enthusiasts that perhaps they want to be xr enthusiasts.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by ajmurmann on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:24PM (#36656491)
How sparse are Apple Stores where you live? I have three within very comfortable driving distance and I live in a mid-sized city's metro.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by BizarreByte on Sunday July 09, 2023 @03:52PM (#36658205)
There is one in the whole on Nova Scotia. Not everywhere in an American city.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by ajmurmann on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:10PM (#36661215)
Most people live in urban areas though. Nova Scotia has only a million inhabitants and half of them live in Halifax where I assume the Apple Store is. If something needs fitting and prescription lenses it seems reasonable that a physical location needs to be visited and this is the kind of trade off one makes when moving to a rural area. I'd bet that this will still be convenient for the vast majority of the population.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by BizarreByte on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:55PM (#36661503)
I mean you asked how sparse Apple stores can be and I gave an example.
Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by goosedragons on Monday July 10, 2023 @06:06AM (#36664165)
That one store in Nova Scotia is pretty much the Atlantic Canada store being the closest for most people in Newfoundland, PEI and a huge chunk of New Brunswick (on the Western side the Québec City store is closer maybe, still hours away). There's plenty of non-rural areas there without an Apple Store.

There is still 4 U.S states that lack an Apple store entirely. It's not like Wal-mart or even Best Buy.

Re:Buying Apple’s Vision Pro headset could require an appoin... by fomine3 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @10:44PM (#36661442)
Good point. Telling how xR device good is one of the most difficult thing for consumer market. Trying is the only way but it's annoying to setup. Let's see how Apple solves this.