also FWIW Clickhouse's cloud offering also decouples storage and compute using an object store, but they found a good middleground where they keep local caches of hot data.
but ch supports large distributed joins?..
Which brings me to the next point: I’m convinced the delineation between “data warehouse” and “olap” is largely a marketing move designed to segment the market along made up boundaries.
I’m talking about the false difference between the likes of ClickHouse and Snowflake, where they’re both column oriented already. I’m asserting that the fundamental differences between “classic” column db’s and “data warehouses” is far less fundamental than the marketing would have us believe. Some of the db’s in this space have slightly different architectures and trade offs, and some deliberately operate at different scales, but they are built for, and operate in, basically the same purpose.
Snowflake is focused on enterprise customers. It has a lot of features focused on that, like very granular security and governance and data marketplace. There's also some non-enterprise features that ClickHouse lacks, like the ability to execute Python in database (so you can bring ML in).
But the biggest difference is that Snowflake is storage segregated architecture. Scaling Snowflake is done by running "alter warehouse resize" or something. You can also dedicate specific compute slices to specific users and scale them up and down as needed. And this is all managed for you.
If you want to run ClickHouse at scale, you have to run your own k8s, figure out how to manage persistent storage, figure out how to replicate your data, manage cluster replicated tables, etc. Once you outgrow single instance, things get exponentially more difficult - both for the admins and for the users.
Also, while ClickHouse can do joins and is getting better and better optimizer as we speak, and is probably faster than Snowflake for the same money on "single big table analytics" kind of workload, I would expect it to perform much worse in traditional analytics queries, like you would find in TPC-DS.
I think they have option of standalone cluster, where all of this kinda easy to configure.
But of course the local storage is much faster. Tradeoffs.
I know ClickHouse Cloud uses S3 as well, but I don't know much about it, so I don't want to comment on it.
Signing for cloud infra also adds lots of complexity and risks.
This greatly overstates the difficulty of running ClickHouse as well as the current state of the market.
1. ClickHouse has a good Kubernetes operator written by Altinity that manages most of the basic Kubernetes operations. It's used to operate many thousands of ClickHouse clusters worldwide both self-managed environments as well as multiple SaaS offerings of ClickHouse. (Disclaimer: it's written by my company.)
2. If you don't want the trouble of running ClickHouse there are now multiple cloud vendors in every geographic region offering ClickHouse-as-a-Service. Among other things competition keeps prices reasonable and ensures plenty of choice for users.
There are real differences between Snowflake and ClickHouse but ease of operation is no longer one of them. For example one major difference between Snowflake and ClickHouse from a user perspective is the following: You can develop great Snowflake applications just with a knowledge of SQL whereas for ClickHouse you really have to know how it works inside.
See the presentation for examples: https://presentations.clickhouse.com/meetup74/ai/
In reality, you can probably scale something like vitess pretty far, and then by adding your own summary tables on top, you're probably good for most usecases.
I'm not an expert on this level of the stack though, so I'm probably missing a whole bunch of context.
In terms of measuring popularity, I love
https://db-engines.com/en/ranking
Google Trends is interesting too
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2021-04-24%202...
Disclosure: I work for Snowflake
The original term is ambiguous (I wish Snowflake had different branding) but more specific terms to Snowflake still rank high and are maybe less wonky of a comparison.
See this chart from Gartner DBMS Market Share stack ranks - Oracle was #1 for a long time:
- https://www.linkedin.com/posts/aronthal_dbms-gartnerda-cloud...
Snowflake is now #9 on this chart.
(high res: https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D2CAQGZqgH3ta2R0A/commen...)
(Formerly)
Don't mean to sound dismissive but that what your post reads like, jut because I've never encountered a brown rat does not mean it's not the most populous animal species on earth
None of that is denying Oracle exists.
And that isn't even an 'issue', just an observation. I imagine this used to be similar with encountering IBM DB2 or SAP or Amdahl or melamine deskphones and partitions, but I assume you wouldn't say those are issues.
I've also observed that Oracle stack people generally don't have experience with other platforms, so push it in whatever org they're working for.
In a world of limitless VC money, one might choose the more familiar and battle-tested Snowflake dynamics every time... but the world is shifting quite rapidly, and the degree to which investment in a Clickhouse stack is much less likely to "trap" you in rapidly expanding spend on a more closed ecosystem is becoming notable.