What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.

Have you visited any countries bordering Russia - Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan? If you do, you see quite odd things...

You see children's playgrounds that have a big sign saying 'Proudly sponsored by the USA development fund", or "This bus route is made possible by the EU funding.".

Why would the USA be using US taxpayer money to build children's playgrounds in Azerbaijan?

It's all about a long term battle for hearts and minds... Be the 'good guys' to a 5 year old child now, and in 30 years that child is a voter and you can have influence over the whole country.

Pretty smart moves... But I can see how Russia isn't happy about it.

"We invaded with tanks because the other guy funded a playground" is a hell of a take.

Some Saudis that we betrayed in Iraq flew some planes into some buildings in America so we spend two decades in Afghanistan, kicking in doors and blowing up weddings, mosques and schools as we attempt to install a pedophile government unsuccessfully.

If Americans wanted the moral high ground here we shouldn't have traded it for Raytheon's bottom line.

We have no leg to stand on and weak leadership so Russia made it's move.

I agree. Once Putin had Trump there in power he sensed that the country was weak and decided to take action thinking that the Americans were too preoccupied with trying to be some semblance of government and international relations back to order once Biden won the election.

Problem was that the Biden admin actually has experience and capabilities, and the Ukrainians decided to fight for their country and now Russia is finding out that they made a pretty poor move based on faulty assumptions.

> We have no leg to stand on

1) At some point we get our legs to stand on back - supporting Ukraine actually has gone a long way in the eyes of Europe and allies in the Pacific.

2) Not having a leg to stand on doesn't matter because we can do wrong things and then also criticize others when they do wrong things.

3) EU member states and other nations have legs to stand on and they also support the American position on Ukraine.

It remains the case that Russia didn't have to invade Ukraine and the US didn't have to invade Afghanistan. Both wars are morally reprehensible.

> US didn't have to invade Afghanistan.

If we didn't, there would have been an Afghanistan war gap.

Now do Yemen, Iraq (first and second time), Pakistan, Libya and Syria. Then do Vietnam, then consider the support and armament of Israel and finish up with decades of CIA meddling and installation of brutal dictatorships all around the globe.

Now do Ukraine.

What about US actions elsewhere makes Russia's invasion moral?

We have politicians here that voted in favor of those war crimes, demanding that Russians are punished for theirs. Let's start at home if war crimes are something we care about if not we can shut our hypocrite mouths.

"the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: 'theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'" - https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312

Worlds most obese man calls women fat.

So? Can't that be accurate?

The end of the Nazis and the Holocaust doesn't become a bad thing just because the Soviets were involved. Helping Ukraine resist a clear war of aggression doesn't become a bad thing just because the US is part of that helping. Hell, it's nice to see most of the world chip in on a more morally black-and-white scenario than is typical over the last 70 years.

If you think Russia and the US are on equal moral footing with regards to the Ukraine question, you're the @dril tweet.

It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him. Do as I say not as I do has never been effective. If we want less war we need to set an example not raise the share price of our private defence contractors at the expense of civilians while wagging our finger.

Also the powers that be in the US want a war in Ukraine as much as Putin does. Probably moreso. They are selling a lot of killing machines.

> It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him.

She might not be wise to. An obese doctor advising an obese patient to lose weight because of health problems still has a potentially valid point. The obese doctor might even have more useful perspective than another doctor on the issue.

> If we want less war we need to set an example...

I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine. China certainly would be wise to consider what a Taiwan invasion would look like if the US and allies decided to assist in a similar fashion.

> Also the powers that be in the US want a war in Ukraine as much as Putin does. Probably moreso. They are selling a lot of killing machines.

Sure. Ted Bundy and I both like to eat; that doesn't automatically make eating bad. This is precisely why we have to evaluate the actual specific scenario in question on its merits.

> I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine.

If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia. Instead we send billions of dollars into a the unaccountable void that is the most corrupt country in Europe.

> If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia.

This is not an argument made in good faith.

Look man, if really believe in this stuff the military is really struggling to find recruits right now. A lot of people are disillusioned with the forever wars as their nations infrastructure crumbles around them, costs rise to unsustainable levels and their streets are full of homeless. They watch the VA fail to serve veterans and remember the lies they were told by the elderly politicians who still haven't been replaced. You on the other hand appear to have strong convictions about this conflict, rather than costing my daughter her future via debt spending are you willing to be the boots on the ground to make sure justice is served?

My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit. If you'd told a Cold Warrior in the 80s it'd cost 10% of a single year's military budget to kneecap Russia's military without firing a shot, they'd have laughed at you; it's probably the most effective military spending we've done since WWII.

Americans are simultaneously down on "forever wars" and supportive of Ukraine assistance. Your attempt to connect the two concepts doesn't seem to be a widely shared position in the American public.

> My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit.

Oh but if you were to say, build a fighter jet and then go to Ukraine and teach the Ukrainians on how to use the jet to kill Russians, there is no way that will result in nuclear war? I'll take that as a no on the "go die for the war machine" plan.

There's direct evidence of that, yes. HIMARs, Bradleys, etc. all active in Ukraine, but importantly, manned by Ukrainians. We're also clearly providing plenty of training and intelligence support.

NATO troops actively shooting folks in the Donbas would be a very different scenario, one we're rightly avoiding. For the sake of folks like your daughter.

But if I am to believe the claims, this guy is off his rocker. Our activity doesn't reduce his nuclear capabilities at all, in fact it buys him time! He recently developed supersonic missles, his capabilities are increasing by leaps and bounds. Provocative action that isn't remotely decisive is the exact opposite of what you'd do here if that was the actual concern. You'd either cut off the head or do nothing.

> He recently developed supersonic missles

Supersonic missiles are heaps old. What Russia recently developed is _hypersonic_ missiles, and what Ukraine recently did is shoot all of down them with a patriot.

Turns out when your missiles move in predictable patterns they can still be shot down at hypersonic speeds.

Yeah, merely hypersonic missiles aren't that interesting; maneuverable hypersonic missiles/weapons, however, are.

Exactly hypersonic glide vehicles are what’s interesting, the Kinzhal is not a hypersonic glide vehicle.

The Kinzhal is effectively just an air launched slightly modified Iskander.

Nobody was even talking about America. We are talking about Russia invading Ukraine. That can still be bad even if America’s actions are also bad.

I live in Ukraine and never have seen a US-funded playground. As a father of two, I’m a frequent visitor of playgrounds. Also have never seen a “funded by EU” sign. I’m sure there are some cases with EU-funding, as I’ve read about a couple of cases in the news, but it’s not widespread at all. I’ve only seen such signs in EU proper (e.g. Lithuania).

The whole premise “someone funded a playground in my neighbor’s backyard, I have no other options. Bomb them NOW!” is beyond ridiculous.

They could also fund our playgrounds, if it’s as effective, as you claim. In any case that would be muuuuuch cheaper than starting a war with hundreds of thousands dying, sanctions and all that.

You’re probably right that the west meddles in Ukrainian politics, attempting to sway them towards being pro-west instead of pro-Russia.

I’m missing the explanation for how this justifies an extremely destructive invasion and war.

It was not inevitable, it was a decision, a choice made by specific people.

They do everything in their power to make you believe that is was inevitable to divert the blame.

Same with Taiwan. It is a choice for China to make - to invade or not.

?? Has the West moved east or did Eastern Europe run to the West out of fear of their neighbor?

But yes. US influence snuck up on Russia and tricked those countries into being scared of it. Its all so clear now...