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Re:The Mullvad Browser by dymk on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:04AM (#35422069)
It's no surprise that Brave's obsession with pushing crypto and their own ad network, and Eich being a homophobe, did burn a lot of goodwill.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by tomcam on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:29AM (#35422379)
> Eich being a homophobe

Wut? Citation needed. I’m sure you don’t mean his support of Proposition 8 in 2008, because Barack Obama professed the same belief in 2008… making him, in this formulation, a homophobe.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by jraph on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:35AM (#35422447)
I don't think we need an umpteenth discussion about this here, it has already been discussed to hell. This is getting old. Just search Brendan Each on HN [1], this discussion happens any time he is mentioned here.

Or just read the summary on Wikipedia [2].

There's a lot of material on this topic, it's easy to make up one's opinion on this.

(I know you are not the one who started it today, my comment is also directed toward the parent comments)

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich#Appointment_to_CE...

Re:The Mullvad Browser by haswell on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:06AM (#35422849)
As a bi man, the next paragraphs excuse nothing.

But if these details are to play a factor in browser selection, one should reflect on the myriad of undesirable associations involved in going about daily life.

Just typing this reply involves an entire supply chain associated with individuals and organizations of questionable character.

To apply this same level of sensitivity to daily life would be to mostly unhook oneself from modern society.

I care deeply about the safety and freedom of the LGBTQ+ community, and find little value in allowing someone else’s lack of acceptance of me dictate my life. Doing so is a form of “doing something” that does nothing but widen the gap to actual change, which can only ever happen via open dialogue.

I think there are plenty of reasons not to choose Brave based on the actual technical merits of the product.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by jraph on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:13AM (#35422946)
Sure, I'm not disagreeing with you and this is actually an interesting philosophical topic to discuss (I meant it, I'm genuinely interested in this and have been wondering where to put limits on this kind of stuff).

But wondering whether is Eich homophobic? Meh. Bored of these discussions. I have set my opinion on this. It's been discussed enough.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by haswell on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:00AM (#35423683)
Yeah, that’s a fair stance and I generally agree with you here.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by axus on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:16AM (#35422988)
What are your thoughts on Chick-Fil-A. I will sometimes choose them on the merits of their product.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by haswell on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:12AM (#35423885)
I tend to avoid fast food in general, but I try not to orient my life around actions (or avoiding actions) that are unlikely to have any impact, especially if they involve spending more of my own energy.

Avoiding Chik-Fil-A at all costs: primarily affects me.

Being willing to frequent a Chik-Fil-A because a friend somewhere else on the political spectrum enjoys it: potentially opens an opportunity to talk.

Most of my family and their circles fit that latter description, so this is not a hypothetical. Any chance of influencing them is actively harmed by choosing/avoiding fast food based on tribal allegiance.

None of this should be construed to mean that I find their leadership team and public stances acceptable.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by tomcam on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:10AM (#35422908)
That has nothing to do with my comment. You libeled someone without providing any proof at all.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by jraph on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:16AM (#35422983)
> That has nothing to do with my comment

It has everything to do with your comment? I'm inviting anybody interested on the topic to go read about it themselves instead of rehashing the same subject again and again, since I believe everything about this has already been said already?

> You libeled someone without providing any proof at all.

On the contrary, please notice how I carefully and deliberately stated nothing about Eich, not given my opinion on this and not taken sides here.

It would not be smart, it would invite people who have opinions on this to further push this discussion.

Did you confuse me with another commenter?

Re:The Mullvad Browser by tomcam on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:28PM (#35456724)
Yes! Apologies. I did indeed answer the wrong comment.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by asddubs on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:46AM (#35422584)
so someone being against gay marriage is not a homophobe in your eyes? Why can't Obama just also be/have been a homophobe
Re:The Mullvad Browser by tomcam on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:14AM (#35422958)
One can have a principled opposition to gay marriage without being a homophobe.

Declaring someone else is a homophobe without their making such an assertion is mindreading.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by asddubs on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:28AM (#35423174)
actions speak louder than words. by that logic you can never declare anyone anything.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by dymk on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:08AM (#35423818)
> One can have a principled opposition to gay marriage without being a homophobe.

The same way a principled vegan also eats meat, to be sure.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by darksaints on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:19AM (#35424000)
No, they can’t.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by darksaints on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:46AM (#35424505)
Barack Obama opposed prop 8 in 2008, and certainly never donated money to the campaign like Eich did. There are dozens of articles about it.

But he also opposed gay marriage, so to some extent he was homophobic, at least for political reasons. He later changed his mind on it, likely also for political reasons.

But shame on you for using such disingenuous bullshit tactics to make your homophobic point: “If you call Eich a homophobe, then you also have to call <insert beloved liberal figure> a homophobe!”. For one, it ignores the fact that people’s minds can change over time, whereas Eich has never changed his stance on gay marriage and has never disavowed the money he spent trying to stop it. And two, it’s just a red herring argument and attempted hypocrisy trap.

And worse, it’s a fucking terrible hypocrisy trap. There are millions of people who support gay marriage but never supported Barack Obama, and millions more who supported Obama precisely because they didn’t want gay marriage and thought they could trust him to not change his mind on it. Obama may be beloved by some liberals, but he is a hypocrite to many on a multitude of reasons, ranging from his gay marriage flip flop, to his support of the patriot act, to the promotion of indefinite detention and torture to federal law, to the fact that he continued the pointless Iraq war for his entire term.

Re:The Mullvad Browser by Euphorbium on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:11AM (#35422157)
Lets replace that with vpn pushing, that sure is better. By the way brave is also pushing a paid vpn.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by dymk on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:14AM (#35422188)
There is no opt-out to not use a VPN. There's... the Mullvad logo, which seems pretty reasonable. Certainly more reasonable than injecting their own ad network into your pages and pushing your home-rolled cryptocoin.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by Euphorbium on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:28AM (#35423191)
I have been using brave for a long time, and the only places where crypto is mentioned is in the new tab window. You have to opt in to add replacement.
Re:The Mullvad Browser by Dylan16807 on Monday April 03, 2023 @02:04PM (#35428541)
I believe you mean "you have to opt in to their ads, and there is no ad replacement feature", unless something has changed very recently.