You can't fix a racist turd.

US wants to go back to the moon to put the first woman and PoC on it lol. Talk about spending billions of dollars for a token image.

Somehow when Murica does it we should all cheer for it as a great ray of hope for all humanity. Anyone else, there's a long line of "umm, actually..." guys. They just can't accept that a non communist, democratic country can compete with them

> US wants to go back to the moon

... meanwhile there are people shitting on the streets of San Francisco (seen with my own eyes), and people OD-ing (as in dying from drugs) on the streets of San Francisco, and homeless people camped on the sidewalks by the 1000s in cities like San Francisco and LA.

And yet nobody bats an eye when America "wastes" money on going back to the moon.

People have been complaining about NASA for decades.In The decade of the apollo missions many people in the civil rights movement were against spending 20b to send someone to the moon and today those same arguments still stand and many people still voice them. Maybe your circle is to small and you haven’t been exposed to diverse opinions.

Space program has been taken over by DEI administrator class, just like every other institution.

When I see people make comments like that, I always wonder if they've done the maths of dividing the cost of whatever programme by the number of people in the country. Given India's population, it probably wouldn't amount to much per person, even if you could magically give it out.

Instead of dividing it up per person, imagine it had all been put toward one particular cause, e.g. doing something (more than waht they are) about the rape endemic. If women are empowered, lifted up and don't have to live in fear, that tends to result in huge gains for an economy.

----

Guess I'll edit in my other reply since I can't comment due to all the false flagging of my comments...

> Fine, keep him on HN, but allow me to appeal to @dang on the site's own guidelines at least. There can be reprieve but not reproach.

There is no reason for you to have taken my comment so personally, and acted like I have insulted you and your family.

I made a point and stated an opinion. I'm not racist, or an 'ignorant', much as you wish that were the case.

My comment isn't against the guidelines, even if you disagree with it. You're the only one in this thread who has violated the guidelines.

My comment isn't specific to India. I maintain that any country with some of the problems India has should not be putting money into a space program to compete with superpowers (i.e. for clout), that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways.

Rather than engage with me productively, you decided to take a lot of personal offense and throw around insults to retaliate against a perceived sleight.

If you had said why you disagree, stuck to facts, and had a productive discussion instead of a tantrum, then you may have resulted in educating and changing not only my mind, but all the others that you complain about.

" If women are empowered, lifted up and don't have to live in fear, that tends to result in huge gains for an economy."

And what makes you think we don't do that already? Did you read monthly public health outcomes and human rights outcomes research either by third party or government ministers?

Did you see no programs and collaborative efforts by NGOs and Government?

Did you see no improvements in critiqued yearly and monthly reports of famous research journals like 'Economics and Political Weekly' and Ministry of Women and Child Development, Ministry of Health and family welfare, etc?

What is your picture on comparative analysis of rape "endemic" across other factors normalized, like by country, by per capita, by development index, by any rank for that matter?

I’m not going to argue to prove what is ignorant or not. But, I just want to point out the flaw in your thinking and hope that you would open your mind enough to think about it.

By your argument, if India should stop investing in science and having its citizens explore space, and only focus on lifting people out of poverty or empower women, I’d love your take on the USA, the single biggest economy in the world, the mightiest superpower which could solve the problems of 1. People dying because of the healthcare system, or the school kids dying because of lack of gun control, or those living homeless in just a flick of its policy? Should the USA stop NASA for a couple of years until those problems are fixed? Should the USA stop all its road building projects until all its issues are solved?

India, poor as it may be, has brought some wonders into the world of science, particularly space missions, at times launching missions that achieve similar results with orders of magnitude lower costs with truly innovative ways. Please don’t categorise people, science and innovation based on where it comes from.

People want to keep drawing comparisons to the US, which obviously has a ton of issues, (and FWIW I'm not even from the US), but I absolutey think those issues should be addressed as a priorty as well. But as I said originally, there is a difference in degree between the extent and type of problems facing the two countries, and dare I say one set is more severe than the other.

> India, poor as it may be, has brought some wonders into the world of science, particularly space missions, at times launching missions that achieve similar results with orders of magnitude lower costs with truly innovative ways.

I would never doubt that or claim otherwise.

> Please don’t categorise people, science and innovation based on where it comes from.

What comment did I make that indicates that is what I am doing? I don't, and would not do that.

"to compete with superpowers (i.e. for clout),..."

Don't you understand that we are not here for show off and compete? We are competing against superpowers called poverty and societal backwardness, security of merchant navy, and all, not WEST. West is our ally and vice versa.

In fact, I have given multiple examples like Ed-Tech platforms, internet penetration for MSME, and all, but you won't listen only to come back to square one - superficial effort against superpowers. If this is not judgmental, then what is it? If this is not racist, then what is it?

The project reports are required to detail the outline the intended outcomes. Now another round is made for such outcomes to be compare at state and national level. Multiple permissions and meeetings are done here about this. In between all of these, consultants from McKinsey and BCG are brought in along with experts to assess the practicality of claims. This is not enough for you? Oh, wait. you are ignorant, how would you know?

"There is no reason for you to have taken my comment so personally..." Why not? You say Indians are inefficient and not intelligent enough to have their own problems solved. That is racist. It doesn't matter if you talk about a country like India or India itself. You are racist to talk about a country like India then, that is all. It still makes you racist is what I want to say.

"I made a point and stated an opinion." - YOU WERE QUICKLY JUDGEMENTAL. Always ask and then say. At least say by framing it is a question to get the benefit of doubt.

A closed mind cannot be filled. Nor is an open one with a holes under. So please stop suggesting me and start listening.

The OP has a stretch of whole bunch of comments where they are simply confidently wrong but never admit it. Don't bother, it's not worth your time, just flag and move on otherwise you'll end up in 10 level deep comment threads that go nowhere.

That's ironic coming from you given how confidently incorrect you were regarding GDPR....

All you could muster is tu quoque fallacy. No surprises there.

> You say Indians are inefficient and not intelligent enough to have their own problems solved.

No, I never said that. I didn't even imply it. You just decided to 'hear' that and then strike back.

It's so incredibly ironic that you are accusing me of having a closed mind in this thread.

Well what exactly are you implying sitting on the other side of the earth to suggest that Indian could have done better elsewhere? Like We Indians never have had that thought crossed our mind? We are incapable of running cost-benefit analysis and SWOT analysis? Yours is the novel idea that we should have paid heed to and should now be regretting wasting millions of dollar?

What are you implying or what are you trying to say if not my 'hearing' then?

I am all ears now. Go on!

> I am all ears now. Go on!

You came out swinging with bs accusations of racism, and tons of insults, clearly breaking the HN guidelines numerous times because of your own asinine assumptions.

Why should I bother to put in effort to converse with you, when you are going out of your way to misconstrue and insult, and coming from a place of extreme defensiveness and patriotism?

If you had not tainted this entire thread, I would have loved to have a productive discussion, and if I'm wrong be corrected and learn something.

But how is that possible now after your tirades and insults? As you even said you took what I said emotional and became very heated. Worst case, I might be ignorant, but I'm not racist or hateful against people of any race or country, and you said an awful lot of crappy things, much worse than anything I've said.

> rape endemic

Far from being endemic, India has amongst the lowest per capita rate of rape in the world. You most definitely are ignorant. Demonstrably so!

> space program to compete with superpowers

If you were arguing in good faith, you would have looked up ISRO's budget and tried to look at what the money is actually spent on. Instead you doubled down with more puerile nonsense.

Your comment might not have been against guidelines but it deservedly got killed and your bullshit got rightly called out. HN doesn't suffer fools gladly.

These kind of higher purpose establishments empowers women. These kind of places are magnet for academic oriented women science students - provides them stable, safe, intellectual environment. There are many such government research establishments from Biotechnology to Astrophysics to Defence techs.

Beyond Rocket Boys, The Inspiring Rocket Women Of India's Space History

https://www.indiatimes.com/trending/rocket-women-isro-scient...

The parent comment is implying that if every person donates anything on their personal capacity, this project would have been funded and executed easily. He is asking you to not bother with anything more than donations alone, had you been Indian.

But here you are bothering about India's perverse fixation about competing with West. Heck, If West violated every law there is and blatantly copied to advance its interests and no one else, India doesn't have money to fight in ICJ courts or otherwise. Why are you making your ignorance so apparent for no one to sympathize with you?

It's 1.9 billion USD divided by 1.4 billion people or 1.35 dollars per person.

The international poverty line is $2.15 per day. The GDP per capita in India is $2.2k which means the program costs the average Indian 0.06% of their wages or less than a day at the poverty line and this doesn't even account for progressive taxation where mostly middle class and above Indians pay the taxes that fund the space program.

> Said every racist and ignorant ever.

So now it's racist to suggest that a particular country has more important problems to spend money on? I thought HN was above this unintelligent name calling. You accuse this person of not belonging on HN, and yet you yourself contribute nothing but pejorative.

Yes, it is racist. The suggesting you said was without a backup of resources and citations to provide any chance for a writer to educate himself and as well as educating readers. What exactly are these more important problems? And what subset of these problems are we neglecting?

You think our civil service officers don't do cost benefit analysis? You think we don't have Finance commission to develop an algorithm and spread budgets accordingly?

Racism is looking at us like we are dorks by race. To think that the above commentor has posed this novel question but not Indians only to do inefficient decision is racist and ignorance!

I read Germany making a U turn with respect to Nuclear and fossil fuels. Everybody gives deep arguments as if I am sitting in the policy think tank. That is why I've come to HN.

I see Russia investing in war, everybody gives deep arguments I feel like I am in a war room. That is why I've come to HN

I read Australia investing in Hydrogen, Plutonium, Uranium, etc. I feel hope in the my children and a bit of excitement. That is why I've come to HN.

I see India investing in space, nobody writes the how and why behind their "suggestions". Nobody quotes budget session of parliaments discussing this at length. Apparently it is enough to "suggest a country to do something" and not be called out for racism quoting nothing be it citations or build up logic behind the suggestions.

As far as my rant, you are falling for tu-Quoque fallacy. At least my censure is acting like a reminder to be civil and focused to the purpose of this site, and has only conjured in reaction rather than prophylaxis or presumptuous preemptive warning. What did the racist OP's comment serve, except for my arse to heat up?

India's poverty is in an entirely different category to that of the US or other developed nations. Once sewage isn't in the streets, come back to me about starting a space program.

> come back to me about starting a space program.

We already have a capable space program which is tangibly improving the lives of Indians everyday. And WTF do you mean by come back to you? Are you going to fund it?

Exactly. The Hubris HN is filled with, is beyond astounding. He is beyond useless practically, so uses his fingers, username, password to spew wild racist bile, or better, sewage.

Comments like this aren't allowed here regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Please don't post like this again. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35416603 also.

I've asked for your intervention in another comment.

With respect to both the comments you gave as a reply, I have read the guidelines and will abide by it.

Also, I won't protest you nor engage on this whole thread anymore. Its a whole new sunny day here in India, and I hope yours is too.

I already banned that other user. That doesn't change the fact that you broke the site guidelines extremely badly. I didn't ban you for this because I didn't see a pattern of it in your comment history and because we hadn't warned you before. But please don't do this again.

Nationalistic flamewar is particularly hellish. HN has users all over the world and from all different backgrounds. People here need to constrain such passions and remain respectful.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Apparently, our civil service officers and think tanks shouldn't create customized solutions to the unique problems and prerequisites we face but should ensure to come back and stand with an appointment in front of a house of a random unqualified internet stranger to meet and discuss about starting a space program.

What else? Should we be coming again and again to West because we don't have problem solving skills or at the least, a mind of our own, that we should ask elites like you?

Sewage isn't in the streets? Will you land down in my country giving free consultation if I show you cities that make you envy to be too costly to purchase a square feet of land?

The most intelligent suggestion you could come up with is to drop everything in our hands and only make sewages disappear. Till then we won't even bath or eat. How about that?

Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here, as will other kinds of flamewar. We've had to warn you about this more than once before. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

I honestly agree with everything you have said. I have constantly seen self-proclaimed "intelligent" arguments which basically make the same assumptions you have stated and then have the gall of saying they aren't racist. I daresay these individuals need to grow up and get out of their colonial mindset.

People particularly bring the same dumb boring argument "Why do X when you can do Y ?" when India tries to accomplish something other than trying to bring it's citizens above poverty.

It's like commenting why is NASA sending a probe to outer space instead of providing free healthcare for all in USA. You don't see this comment on every NASA achievement post do you ? Why should it be any different than when ISRO achieves something.

Free healthcare is in a whole other category to "making sure there isn't sewage in the streets".

In other news, San Francisco has job opening to collect human poop off sidewalks [1]

Also you have lower life expectancy than Poland.

Because in your country you only think of the children when it can be used for a convenient moral panic.

Meanwhole 80% of child deaths are from your obsession with guns or giant trucks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6063397/San-Francis...

Aside from the obvious fact that nations can spend money on multiple objectives at the same time, the real un-intelligence comes from suggesting that the people of the country actively involved in various civil programs are somehow incapable of taking care of their problems. Are you insinuating that they are perhaps inferior and need rescuing? Because India has seen how that goes very personally before.

It is a low effort comment based solely on the country. Whether or not that is racism seems like semantics. And then it turns the argument into an American culture war rather than actually considering the issues involved.

you don't ban people for their opinions in free democracies, how so ever absurd and outrageous they may be. Probably you come from a country where people are banned for their views and opinions. But that is not what a free society does.

No world leader is going to read any racist rant on internet and make decision out of it, so chill.

"Probably you come from a country where people are banned for their views and opinions. "

But you do have court cases with real consequences like getting fired, paying up millions, or getting jailed for expounding racist opinions howsoever absurd and outrageous maybe. Sexism just as much. Homophobia just as much. Sadly our memory doesn't go beyond the years of Trump card for such discrimination. What you are doing here is shifting our focus from being racist to being absurd and outrageous. That is not tolerable.

Fine, keep him on HN, but allow me to appeal to @dang on the site's own guidelines at least. There can be reprieve but not reproach.

"No world leader is going to read any racist rant on internet and make decision out of it, so chill."

Oh, please. Its Exaggeration for humor. Slapstick comedy is another example of exaggeration for humor. You know it. This is my way of chilling away the anger.

> Fine, keep him on HN, but allow me to appeal to @dang on the site's own guidelines at least. There can be reprieve but not reproach.

There is no reason for you to have taken my comment so personally, and acted like I have insulted you and your family.

I made a point and stated an opinion. I'm not racist, or an 'ignorant', much as you wish that were the case.

My comment isn't against the guidelines, even if you disagree with it. You're the only one in this thread who has violated the guidelines.

My comment isn't specific to India. I maintain that any country with some of the problems India has should not be putting money into a space program to compete with superpowers (i.e. for clout), that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways.

Rather than engage with me productively, you decided to take a lot of personal offense and throw around insults to retaliate against a perceived sleight.

If you had said why you disagree, stuck to facts, and had a productive discussion instead of a tantrum, then you may have resulted in educating and changing not only my mind, but all the others that you complain about.

"My comment isn't specific to India. I maintain that any country with some of the problems India...."

It still makes you racist. Just that you are racist to countries like India, if not India. I mean don't you think we already know that? Yet we proceeded because of our SWOT analysis favoring such missions. Don't you get it that we too are capable of making such decision rationally? That contempt attitude is what makes you racist.

Repeat after me: "India is not after clout, cheap thrills of praise and attention, etc. India gets about 5 million dollars profit for a year for launching missions like these. All of these are India's welfare money. India also gets a single digit population out of poverty every year because of ISRO alone. India gets to solve problems like high resolution real time monitoring of 100s of parametres, which contributes to GDP in millions of dollars, not Indian Rupee."

We all know India's societal ailments. We all know India takes donations from UN and West. But now? We don't have to.

> It still makes you racist.

No it doesn't. It just makes you incredibly insecure.

It's not more complicated than that.

> that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways.

Your opinions are childish so don’t really bother me. That said, that money cant be spent better in other ways. You have no idea how extremely efficient ISRO is in making use of the budget they are allocated.

>that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways.

It can't. The amount of money allocated to the space program is insignificant and doesn't move the needle. There are diminishing returns to putting more and more money into the same things. By investing a little into every sector you diversity and pick up the low hanging fruit.

Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> But no. A random pompous clueless stranger on the internet comes to an sweet intelligent discussion site and declares he is baffled and India should now hold a inter-ministerial meeting to stop space projects.

LOL.

> These people have been everywhere from NYTIMES cartoonists to HN unfortunately. I don't understand how should one ban from this site either.

They are just trying to help you and other peoples of color. They care so much about the poor starving Indians. :(

You win this time, this will quietly fall off the front page, and going forward they will follow you around and flag random things you say. You can't mention this mob of do gooders on this sweet intelligent site, big no-no.

Not to mention the skills and industrial development that comes with these mega projects. That sort of stimulation benefits other industries for generat.

You could have just replied to my comment directly, and we could have had a productive and civilized discussion. But since you just want to throw around insults, I won't bother responding further.

Oh, I couldn't have. I was mid way of completing my reply actually and then was redirected to collapsed reply box with few other comments.

Trust me, my last resort was putting a fresh comment mentioning your hollow mind.

There is nothing you could respond further, except for prostrating and begging for mercy for accepting apology, and don't bother doing that.

> I won't bother responding further.

Going by your comments, the level of discourse will probably improve.

>I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that.

Tribalism has existed since day 1 of human civilization and it has shaped the world we live in today. Your ideal world is a bluff.

> Instead, we have people jumping through hoops to deny things, and trying to provide links to disingenuously claim certain issues are not as serious as they are, or to try and falsely equivocate them to other countries like the US.

On a post about a reusable launch vehicle, you posted a irrelvant comment about how rape was endemic in India. People refuted your assertion with facts and figures.

> It's funny to see the sheer amount of people hurling insults at me, based on incorrect assumptions

So, you are not going to acknowledge your incorrect assumptions?

> There is nothing intelligent about choosing to take offense at a neutral statement, then resort to distractions and untruths, and to attempt to censor people from a discussion.

Your statement was not even remotely neutral. Please point out these untruths.

> I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that.

On a cost basis, India's space program is probably the most efficient in the world. So, let's give up the petty tribalism, shut down all the other space programs and redirect all that funding to ISRO. That would be the best way towards a Star Trek future.

> In any case, if my sentiment was wrong, then I would have appreciated an informative, challenging and productive discussion

And I would have appreciated an informed and well thought out comment instead of a puerile low effort one. Yet here we are.

Every post you've made here is so clealry stemming from emotion and the need to be defensive. Maybe put that aside and actually deal with facts and figures, and not perceived slights.

> People refuted your assertion with facts and figures.

No, they didn't. And I could provide a lot more links and provide a much mroe compelling argument, but despite your beliefs, I'm not trying to make India look bad and have nothing against India. Besides, my posts would just get mass downvoted no matter their credibility.

> So, you are not going to acknowledge your incorrect assumptions?

I made none, rather it's you and others making incorrect assumptions and jumpting to be defensive.

> Your statement was not even remotely neutral. Please point out these untruths.

And why would I bother to engage you in actual debate when you're being so clearly biased and emotional thorughout the thread?

> So, let's give up the petty tribalism, shut down all the other space programs and redirect all that funding to ISRO.

I don't really agree with that, but I am definitely in support or a global combined space program instead of wasted resources.

> And I would have appreciated an informed and well thought out comment instead of a puerile low effort one. Yet here we are.

That's ironic, given the low quality and guidelines violating nature of your posts. My initial comment could have led to productive discussion, but hurt feelings prevented that.

> Every post you've made here is so clealry stemming from emotion and the need to be defensive. Maybe put that aside and actually deal with facts and figures, and not perceived slights.

Are you a shrink now?

> No, they didn't.

What are these, alternative facts? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35409029

> And I could provide a lot more links and provide a much mroe compelling argument

Why didn't you do it in the first place? You refuse to put in any work into your comments, and then complain that people don't take you seriously.

> I'm not trying to make India look bad and have nothing against India

I don't think you are. I just think your worldview is informed by a hyperbolic narrative than actual facts.

> I made none, rather it's you and others making incorrect assumptions and jumpting to be defensive.

For the third time: You made a factually incorrect and entirely irrelevant comment about rape being endemic in India. You're dismissing people refuting your claim with easily found facts and figures as being defensive.

> And why would I bother to engage you in actual debate when you're being so clearly biased and emotional thorughout the thread?

So, no actual argument but just crying the victim?

> My initial comment could have led to productive discussion,

Your comment was:

> It's baffling to me that India is putting so much money into being part of the next space race, when they still have such vast and prominent problems on the ground.

Vague, dismissive and low effort. Predictably it did not lead to a good discussion.

> Are you a shrink now?

No, and I don't need to be. It's obvious. As is the way you are distorting everything else in your reply here.

Besides, the irony and hypocrisy of you saying things like

> I just think your worldview is informed by a hyperbolic narrative than actual facts.

When you asked if I was a shrink for simply observing how (very obviously) your comments were coming from an emotional rather than a rational place.

It's clear you are not engaging in good faith but just being defensive, and I have no time for such one-sided discussions. In fact, all of your replies seem downright petty, like you're throwing rocks at me because you don't like what I said, rather than you're interested in having a civil debate.

I'm sure you'll reply again, however I have no interest in replying further, because it clearly isn't a good faith discussion interested in objective facts and truths - anything critical of India is just going to be dismissed, denied or whataboutismed - that's if my reply isn't just mass flagged out of spite to start with.

Best of luck to you.

I completely support India’s decision to develop a space program, and I’m a huge fan of the achievements of ISRO, it’s contribution to Indian society and the advances it’s made on a very constrained budget. The fact is though that any science or technology programme must be prepared to justify its existence and contribution to society. I’m right behind you in supporting that case, but it is entirely reasonable for that case to be questioned.

The US space programme has been questioned in almost exactly the same terms since its inception, without any hint of a racist motive. If it’s reasonable to expect NASA to justify its existence on a cost benefit basis, I think it’s reasonable to question any space programme on that basis. I don't think it’s reasonable to infer racism in this case when there was no specifically racist content in the comment.

If we’re going to convert skeptics into supporters, the way to do that is respectful reasoned argument, not impugning their motives for even asking the question.

You don't question an answer-to-the-same-question without bothering to read the said answer first, right?

That is what is happening with @Zurrrrr guy. In fact, he is not questioning. He is just implying inefficiency and opinionating on inferior problem solving skills of India on things he won't cite his research on. That is what makes it racist.

When US was cross questioned about cost benefit analysis and comparative budge analysis, it was promptly done so by NGOs and UN backing up with how that strategy is flawed. But US was hell bent on prestige of being first in space and that reply was apparent and open to criticism.

There was no deeper prodding/questioning into the specifics or support of arguments by @Zurrrrr here. There was just a quick judgmental attitude which made me claim prejudice in him. I urge you read his comment again.

Making someone specifically racist comment is not the bar to judge. Why would someone educated make it so blatant in 2023? Racists will always incorporate euphemisms and innuendos among many other tools to crystallize their thought of racism.

Yeah reading his other comments you have a point. How stopping the space programme would help solve ‘rape culture’ isn’t exactly obvious to me. Are there any countries that solved a sociological problem by not having a space programme? Seems daft, and quite possibly maliciously so.

You know, I was too spaced out to think, but after reading your comment, I looked at the bigger picture. I had a good laugh, thanks man.

Thank you! It's ridiculous to accuse anyone who does so of being racist or ignorant IMO.

The one who you are thanking also wrote this comment just below - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35409316

Good god you're petty.

We've banned this account again for egregiously perpetuating flamewars. Seriously not cool.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The cost effectiveness of these kind of programs is really interesting. It is normal to assume that space is super difficult and this plays into the geeky pride we all have. It is literally rocket science! And then we all get depressed when they go a little over budget or are late. We compare the program to an idealised view of excellence that only exists in our heads. But compared to other human endeavours science and engineering is unreasonably effective. It can break through the mess of human conflict and pettiness that holds us back. It is a great mechanism for getting people to work together for a common cause and we desperately need that. The mission objective is secondary to that.

I'd like to shift the tone of this discussion from vitriolic to something more captivating.

Why Explore Space? - https://lettersofnote.com/2012/08/06/why-explore-space/

Here is an interesting letter by Ernst Stuhlinger, then an associate director of science at NASA's MSFC, written to a nun in the 1970s. He explains the crucial role of space exploration in a country's growth. This topic sparked some engaging conversations on HN in 2012 and 2015:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4372563

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8917045

You make good points. And regardless of how the person you're replying to commented, IMHO you should reduce the amount of snark in your reply.

Otherwise, you're really stooping down to the same level.

I heard this exactly how most Americans reacted to black people fighting for their rights.

Thanks man. It is because of people like you I grow matured. I will remember this to by heart.

> racist and ignorant

> random pompous clueless stranger

> sleep back in your mother's basement

> sweet intelligent discussion site

You're certainly not acting like you're interested in keeping this space "sweet and intelligent"

Well, my apologies. I became testy and had to blow off the steam. I felt like exploding.

I can't be fighting a fellow bully and simultaneously be a student participating in group discussions in classroom when it comes to arseholes like the above.

This one was the first or maybe second from my side since 2014. You see, I couldn't have imagined this rude surprise of racism at HN. It felt so personal, even though there is no abnormal attachment to my country, I felt I had to give him a good earfull.

I have nothing against comments of criticism like these, even though coming from a fellow Indian, you see - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35407658

It doesn't feel like I got blew by my own people reading that comment. It didn't knock the wind out of me. It didn't make me insecure.

You have nothing to apologize for.

I agree with your rational conclusion, India should continue to invest in science, technology and space. It's the way to go, more players in space the better.

That said, the sentiment isn't unique to India, and NASA is questioned the same since forever. "Will not tolerate" isn't something that one should feel or write against an opinion, even when presented in a sarcastic way. Make fun of it, argue against it, or ignore it, after all India isn't going to stop its space program because someone in NYT published a cartoon.

Ugh, yeah. I will take your suggestion to heart man. Thanks.

Make fun of it. Argue against it. Ignore it.

You posted well over a dozen flamewar comments to this thread and broke the site guidelines egregiously. We ban accounts that do that. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid this kind of thing in the future—regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are—we'd appreciate it.

I understand how provocative nationalistic flamebait can be, but that's a reason to take a step back and consciously not take the bait. Otherwise we end up in a downward spiral, as happened here.