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Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by timkam on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:30PM (#35404278)
A key problem in Sweden -- besides the weird interaction of privatization and legacy over-regulation -- is that the current inflation and rising interest rates break the social contract: a relatively even salary distribution allowed many people to have a solid middle-class life style, recently albeit with never-ending mortgages. Now, the interest rates are too high for these mortgages to be even superficially sustainable, people have less money at hand to pay for them, and there is no political will to relief the working and middle class, which means many will slide down the social ladder. As an immigrant living in Sweden I fear that the country will soon be pretty unattractive to live in for most 'internationals' who have a choice.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by moltar on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:33PM (#35404304)
I think you could say exactly the same story about Canada. And imagine many other countries soon. Interest rates will spoil the party.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by brailsafe on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:00PM (#35405042)
Canada is fucked
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by f1shy on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:36PM (#35405342)
And Germany, ans so many other countries
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by theshrike79 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @02:44AM (#35407825)
The difference in Sweden is that they gave out ridiculously long loans for housing. Like 60-100 years. The kind that was never meant to be paid back.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by jokethrowaway on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:31PM (#35404812)
It's the same everywhere, not only in Sweden.

What a surprise. The government got your taxes AND screwed you with inflation over time.

Then COVID happened and they had to print more, postponing and aggravating the crisis.

Now it's time to pay and nobody will take the blame.

When are people going to rebel?

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by sbmthakur on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:34PM (#35405329)
What kind of measures by the government and can help the situation?
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by csomar on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:52PM (#35406676)
Hey, at least they get to live in Sweden which is the Utopia of this world.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by varispeed on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:42PM (#35404902)
> which means many will slide down the social ladder.

That is intentional - part of you will own nothing and you will be happy - programme run by World Economic Forum and their politicians they penetrated governments with.

Many people still don't believe it and develop cognitive dissonance, saying it's not happening, it's a conspiracy theory, despite having their own savings disappear, being able to afford less and less and so on.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:15PM (#35405176)
This is a conspiracy theory about a global suit-and-tie version of TED Talks whose members consistently underperform the S&P 500. The World Economic Forum sounds important, like the IMF is, but it's nothing at all like that. It's a convention, in the ComicCon sense, that happens to be frequented by high-status people, because high-status people go where other high-status people go.

Ironically, talking about them as if they're engineering the future of Europe is probably the only thing anybody can possibly do to give them any kind of impact.

The solution to housing affordability is to build more housing. It's not complicated. But people who own housing today have a vested interest in preventing new housing development.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by varispeed on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:26PM (#35405260)
> It's a convention, in the ComicCon sense

This is a common way people use to rationalise it. But how do you think decisions are made when there is group of people where each one has a part to play to execute a policy? The word you are looking for is a meeting. People meet, discuss, share concerns and agree plan. At this level, this is not something you can do over a Zoom call as you don't know who may be in the room and there are other security risks to consider. So they organise ComicCon, in a semi-open fashion. After all, what pleb like me and you can do about it?

Even if you write online, like I do, you can see I am getting dismissed, often ridiculed and often ad hominem follow as well.

They can totally do it and there is nothing people can do about it, so they don't even have to hide that much.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:33PM (#35405315)
One way you can tell it's a conspiracy theory is that people talk about the WEF, which has no power other than arranging the name tags on the lunch tables at the gatherings, rather than the actual policy makers making decisions.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by roenxi on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:45PM (#35405847)
That argument doesn't make sense. It is like saying that the policies Bharatiya Janata Party are a conspiracy theory because the party is basically just a big social club, and upsetting a few key members of the BJP executive doesn't imply anything. It doesn't, but then later in unrelated news a billion Indians might start making life difficult for our hypothetical upsetter at the direction of the Indian parliament.

The social club is convened for the purpose of high status people deciding how to influence the direction of the World Economy. It isn't a literature club. Their consensus opinions and the voices in the room matter a lot.

> .. people talk about the WEF ... rather than the actual policy makers

The names aren't a mystery. Klaus Schwab organises the thing. Lists of the politicians and businessmen are published. It is easier to say WEF than to say "9 of the 10 wealthiest people except Adani". Especially since Adani still attends some of the meetups.

https://qz.com/davos-2023-world-economic-forum-attendees-184...

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:51PM (#35405891)
The BJP is in fact not just a big social club.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by roenxi on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:53PM (#35405900)
The WEF is in fact not just a big social club either. People go their to coordinate, discuss policy and make deals.

They aren't going for the merch. They are there to lobby and influence, dare I say, the World Economy.

I mean, https://www.weforum.org/focus/the-great-reset . They're not talking about the weather. They're looking at the future and coordinating a response.

EDIT https://www.weforum.org/great-reset was a better link.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:56PM (#35405920)
The WEF is if anything less than a social club. It's a series of social events. It's nothing. The only potential energy it has at all is people imputing it power on threads about how it's the secret architect of the global economy. That is not something you can say about the BJP, which has real power.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by roenxi on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:02PM (#35405960)
What powers do you think the BJP has that the WEF doesn't?
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:45PM (#35406635)
The BJP is one of the two largest political parties in India.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by roenxi on Sunday April 02, 2023 @12:39AM (#35407227)
So say someone walks in and argues that the BJP has no power other than adding a tag to names in an election, and we should rather talk about the actual policy makers making decisions? Seem like a fair argument to you for why the BJP is not a real political entity?

Because that misses the points just as much as it does in describing the WEF. There is coordination going on beyond the official powers of the organisation. The organisation exists to coordinate political action!

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Sunday April 02, 2023 @12:46AM (#35407255)
That is drastically more power than the WEF has.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by listenallyall on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:15PM (#35406063)
> no power other than arranging the name tags on the lunch tables

The WEF itself would starkly disagree.

For more than 50 years, the Forum has engaged global Partners to drive significant impact – creating historic initiatives, industry breakthroughs, economic solutions and tens of thousands of projects and collaborations – improving the state of the world

That's a lot more than arranging name tags.

https://www.weforum.org/impact

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:44PM (#35406631)
The WEF says it's important. Shocking.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by mthoms on Saturday April 01, 2023 @11:02PM (#35406730)
That’s not what “power” means. They don’t have the power to force anything to happen outside their little get together.

The only “power” they have is limited to what participants can or can’t do while attending. Such as: they have the power to require attendees wear their name tags as a condition for attending.

(Not sure if that’s actually a thing; it’s merely illustrative)

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by listenallyall on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:41PM (#35414959)
If you only think power = force, you don't understand how real power is wielded. You're absolutely correct, WEF will not jail you if you do something its members don't like. If you assume that means it doesn't have any power other than enforcing name tag rules, you're naive.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by mthoms on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @04:24PM (#35445404)
Can you give an example where they have wielded this power? That is, can you give a single, solitary example where the WEF has implemented something that goes against the wishes of the electorate somewhere? Anything?
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by listenallyall on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @08:00AM (#35538266)
I don't think you'll find a single person, including hardcore climate deniers, (let alone an entire "electorate") that would endorse 1000+ private jets all heading to the same event. Why not hold the conference over Zoom?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment...

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by xist on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:52PM (#35405487)
> They can totally do it and there is nothing people can do about it, so they don't even have to hide that much.

All the "theories" I've seen conveniently forget about China & India - the world's largest population by a long shot. How does these conspiracy of WEF impact them?

Until I see something that doesn't have a "me" complex as the main reasoning I'm going to dismiss it.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by im3w1l on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:14PM (#35405641)
It's quite simple. There are multiple conspiracies and they ally with each other but those bonds are fluid and shifting.

To give two examples relating to China and India here was a thread very recently that mentioned how the Mexican cartels are making inroads in the US, succesfully corrupting some police union and that cartel was also in cahoots with the chinese as thats where they were sourcing their fentanyl from.

There is also the Indian Brahmin conspiracy where they favor each other over other castes even abroad.

Both of these are real and established. But it's also clear that neither of them are all-powerful.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by xist on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:24PM (#35405703)
In those 2 examples, they have nothing to do with WEF's goal as far as I can tell.

In fact, Indian Brahmin would seem to contradict with WEF's supposed goals.

wrt Mexican cartels, I'm not sure how that fits into the original narrative of WEF - do Mexican cartels work for the WEF? I've never heard this theory before.

I don't see why any of the groups mentioned would submit themselves to endgoals WEF is supposedly aiming for. I'm skeptical why they would.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:22PM (#35405691)
Sounds pretty simple. Every abusive group in the world is coordinating with every other group.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by im3w1l on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:14PM (#35406055)
I didn't word that very well, I meant that they sometimes ally, and sometimes oppose each other and often they are neutral.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by mthoms on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:36PM (#35406569)
So their behaviour is entirely normal?
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by im3w1l on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:49PM (#35406666)
Well the point is that they are conspiracies, that is, groups of people scheming in secret how they can get more power at everyone else's expense.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @11:03PM (#35406735)
The less plausible the theory is, the more plausible it is!
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by bambam3000 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:23PM (#35405240)
No, it's more of a conspiracy fact.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by listenallyall on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:08PM (#35406009)
Comparing WEF specifically to ComicCon, like it's a harmless goofy diversion, is deceptively dismissive, and surely not an accident on your part.

At the very least you could compare it to an industry trade show, like an annual convention of trial attorneys or of insurance adjusters, which is a key vector for introducing and spreading new concepts and ideas in those industries.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tptacek on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:44PM (#35406626)
Not an accident indeed. The shadowy hand of the WEF reveals itself again!
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by mthoms on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:49PM (#35406658)
That’s a good analogy. But it misses an important component; Every one of those convention attendees is fiercely competitive with each other. Some are even in a state of war with others. They all have different races, religions, belief systems and they all face drastically different domestic challenges. So yeah, while they may all work in the same industry (so to speak) they are hardly likely to be working together towards some secret nefarious common goal. Not to say that you were implying that, but many do. Anyways, I really like the trade show metaphor.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by oblio on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:02PM (#35405052)
How does this work? We've had a decade of low inflation, low interest rates. Now we have high inflation, high interest rates?

Which one was architected? It can't really be both.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by sumedh on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:43PM (#35405410)
> Which one was architected?

Low interest and money printing to bail out big companies and their CEO buddies. Most of that money printing goes into assets bubbles.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by bambam3000 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:22PM (#35405230)
Glad to see people on here talking about this stuff, I thought I was the only one!
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by imwithstoopid on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:47PM (#35405443)
also UN Agenda 21, a set of guidelines discussed back in 1992 that calls for a single global government, single currency, single control of all schools, etc

its not even trying to hide any of this, you can still find it on the web

this was the goal of Lenin and Trotsky - complete destruction of the idea of the individual person

as one woman on YouTube commented - Agenda21 is a conspiracy, but its definitely not a theory

WEF seems to have become a later-day manifestation of Agenda21

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by andsoitis on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:13PM (#35405635)
> calls for a single global government

Untrue.

Maybe we’ve read different versions, can you point to where it calls for a single global government and currency?

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by xist on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:57PM (#35405526)
> its not even trying to hide any of this, you can still find it on the web

> this was the goal of Lenin and Trotsky - complete destruction of the idea of the individual person

You're right UN Agenda 21 _is_ available on the web. Have you actually read it - or have you only read opinions on it?

I have read it and I think you're taking a VERY big leap of faith to connect the dots this way.

If they're trying to destroy the idea of the individual person, what is the end goal? ie. 2023 you say they're going to destroy the idea of the individual person. 2030 they succeed. 2035 ?????

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by holoduke on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:07PM (#35405079)
Same in every single rich country in Europe. Same story with housing issues, interest etc.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by Aeolun on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:08PM (#35405610)
Pretty much yeah. At least housing in the Netherlands gets rapidly more expensive with no correspondant increase in wages.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by listenallyall on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:49PM (#35405876)
Modestly high interest rates are the only way to break the growth of income inequality fueled by low interest rates.

There are other factors boosting real estate prices -- more people desiring to live alone, ease of renting an unused property via Airbnb, people living longer, massive wealth generation via stock markets -- but a low-rate environment offers existing wealth much more leverage to grow.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by serpix on Sunday April 02, 2023 @03:14AM (#35408004)
With mortgages paying down only the interest doesn't this mean people can become chained to the property? Unable to sell due to the value drop and having to own money to the bank after selling?
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tmnvix on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:21AM (#35408357)
Negative equity is going to become a real problem for a lot of people who purchased in booming markets over the last few years.

As far as I'm aware, most places are 'non-recourse'. Some people might say "if you can carry on making the payments you'll be fine". This isn't true though. Not being able to move city for a job, being unable to upgrade to a larger place to start a family, or feeling financial pressure to stay in an unhealthy relationship are all very real potential problems.

Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by bjornsing on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:18AM (#35409359)
Swedish home loans are in general not nonrecourse: the bank can take everything you have, and basically enslave you for 5 years.
Re:What Broke Sweden? Real Estate Bust Exposes Big Divide by tmnvix on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:28AM (#35409442)
Sorry, my mistake. I meant to say most places are not 'non-recourse' as far as I am aware!