News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by withinboredom on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:36PM (#35363176)
> [The] US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of

China. Yeah, except that any business can just buy that information. I can buy your day-to-day movements for dirt cheap. I own a non-American company (though I'm still an American citizen, but that isn't a factor), and it is insanely cheap to get information about any American you want. Hell, BingBot will tell you all about me, what I do for a living and where I live.

This is about China, but it is a stupid and pointless zero-point game. This bill would get shot down in 30s for being unconstitutional, especially if the company has an American LLC or corporation (making it a legal entity protected by the constitution). Further, you'd think congress would have learned from prohibition that banning something ... hmm, doesn't work? At all? How would you even enforce something like this, stop people randomly to violate their privacy further and search their phone? Will this be another thing to get arrested for when you have a 'broken tailight'?

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by yed on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:49PM (#35363394)
The bill doesn't directly ban data sharing but instead focuses on foreign ownership in US companies. It would be enforced similar to anti-trust laws today, by preventing Chinese nationals from purchasing or having an ownership stake in certain large technology companies deemed a security risk. I don't like the bill because I think it's unnecessary but it has nothing to do with searching people's phones or regulating actual data in any way.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by ddoolin on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:50PM (#35363407)
TikTok disappearing from tens of millions of iPhones overnight (I have no idea about Androids) would probably work pretty well. If I had to guess, almost none of those people can jailbreak their iPhone to get it again, either. Your option would be to switch to Android and learn to sideload apps (which I think is pretty damn easy these days).

The point is not to enforce against individual users, just to remove it from the main distribution channels.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by mattmcknight on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:36PM (#35364085)
It has a website. I've used the website, never the app.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by ddoolin on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:09PM (#35364540)
True, but those can also be banned (in a literal or practical sense).
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by imbnwa on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:34PM (#35367584)
Great Firewall of America
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by withinboredom on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:56PM (#35363485)
You can freely install apps on your iphone. All you need is an Apple computer. It only can be used for a week? before you have to install it again. I don't pay apple a dime and still develop software for iPhones occasionally without any issues.

Also, websites are pretty powerful. Apple even allowed websites to send notifications now.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by sebzim4500 on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:15PM (#35363778)
If you believe that a significant portion of iOS users are going to set up an Apple development account and manually reinstall TikTok every week then I have a bridge to sell you.

They will just switch to a different social network, which is equally destructive but not Chinese.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by withinboredom on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:32PM (#35364026)
I didn’t do anything special. I just installed Xcode, and bam. Done.

We ripped CDs so we didn’t have to buy them. Hell, we sat by boomboxes until the right song came on the radio just to push record on the tape player.

Kids will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I’d buy that bridge.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by belval on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:51PM (#35364271)
> I just installed Xcode

I think you are overestimating the tech know-how of the average person and how driven the average teenager is. TikTok a year ago was pretty unique, but now you have YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels. I'd bet a hard money that 99% of people will just switch to those in a heartbeat if TikTok was banned.

> Kids will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I’d buy that bridge.

What they want is cheap dopamine hit from the smartphone. It's really close to drugs, make heroin hard to get and people will go to an analog like fentanyl.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by jrsj on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:02PM (#35364435)
Except a MacBook costs $1000+ when TikTok clones are free
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by murukesh_s on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:59PM (#35365082)
I guess many of us underestimate how many teenagers own a smartphone but not a laptop/desktop computer. In older generation it was the reverse, people owned a laptop/desktop before owning a smartphone..
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by Talanes on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @08:07PM (#35365818)
Even if they have a computer, it's not necessarily going to be an Apple computer. Unless you're a developer, interoperability between your mobile hardware and your desktop hardware is barely a concern.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by edgyquant on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @08:49PM (#35366186)
Most kids didn’t rip CDs though, they had a friend who was good with computers that occasionally did this for them.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by hunter-gatherer on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @09:10PM (#35366357)
> I just installed Xcode, and bam. Done.

Like the commenter above you said; I too have a bridge to sell.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by BaculumMeumEst on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:31PM (#35364019)
What percentage of TikTok users are you expecting to do either of those two things in order to access the app if it’s banned by the federal government?
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by ddoolin on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:09PM (#35364531)
The government has multiple tools it can use to ban websites as well.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by ryukafalz on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:28PM (#35367535)
Serious question: would Apple and Google allowing users to install their own apps on their phones count as aiding/abetting in this case, when the crime is an American using TikTok?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686...

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by weard_beard on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:16PM (#35363802)
Did anyone else notice this bill includes a provision that requires the department of Commerce to inform the president Quiet partwhen wall street has made such a cockup of gamblingQuiet part that it becomes a national security risk and gives him the power to issue an Executive Order requiring the general investing public sell that particular stock so hedge funds can pay off their debt?

S.686 https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by atlasunshrugged on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:29PM (#35363999)
Which section is that in? I didn't read anything that way but maybe I need to re-read
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by weard_beard on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:36PM (#35364092)
Re-reading, I may be mistaken. S.686 is still in committee and it looks like S.1143 looks to have passed the Senate. I read an article this morning that suggested S.686 is meant to be a rider, can't find it now.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by atlasunshrugged on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:38PM (#35364117)
Ah okay, thanks!
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by next_xibalba on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:53PM (#35363457)
The federal government has many tools by which they could accomplish this ban. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States has a long, successful history of forcing divestiture by foreign owners of domestic assets.

Additionally, app stores and ISPs are a pretty obvious route for blocking 99% of U.S. users from circumventing the ban. Any users who are able to circumvent those measures will be using an app whose network effect has been destroyed.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by Aunche on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:19PM (#35363847)
Anyone can get your address and phone number from just about anywhere. What you can't purchase are the thousands of data points that Facebook or Google has about your habits, location, and preferences. That's their secret sauce after all.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by hgsgm on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:21PM (#35363890)
You can't get it from Google, but you can get it from other data harvesters and brokers with a different business model.
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by dotancohen on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:03PM (#35364444)
What keywords should I search for, for more information?
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by ipaddr on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:55PM (#35365046)
buy customer data

Information isn't organized by your name but by your quadrant(s) you fall under

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by seaners on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:38PM (#35364123)
Seems to be a suspicious number of people in this thread purposefully "point missing" and slinging whataboutisms instead of talking about what the CCP (specifically) can do with that type of information...
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by dan-robertson on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:59PM (#35364396)
I don’t really know anything about buying data or whatever, but how would you actually go about buying my day-to-day movements and how much does it actually cost?

I was always under the impression that when people say ‘Google collects all your data and sells it’, or whatever, they really mean that google sells ads which may be targeted based on the data they collect, and it’s only small companies with much less data who might sell it.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by boopmaster on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:01PM (#35364419)
I’m not sure which part of our national security surveillance state apparatus is endangered by foreign ownership, but I assume at face value that there is some very embarrassing facts that our local spooks are not keen to share with China. What does the great firewall of America look like, from the infrastructure & interface angle? Would we want to share that with China? Your Google searches and all your metadata that can likely be accessed with relative ease… is there a similar surveillance capability that we’d wish to share with China in how spooks make data requests?

China has no jurisdiction over you… there’s no real punishing to relate to what you have viewed on TikTok, so why are your viewing habits a threat to national security?

I don’t believe this to be a zero sum game. This is further extension of authoritarianism from a government that is terrified of anything short of pervasive colonoscopy-tier data collection.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by pixl97 on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:25PM (#35364720)
>China has no jurisdiction over you… there’s no real punishing to relate to what you have viewed on TikTok, so why are your viewing habits a threat to national security?

I mean, I mostly agree with what your saying above this, but this particular line I disagree with.

People get blackmailed all the time for different reasons. If I'm looking for a person in a hardware/software company that has weaknesses, having a full view of their social media is a great starting place.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by chemmail on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:50PM (#35381374)
"Traditional" hacking is getting pretty rough, basically a gamble to find an exploit, social engineering will be the easiest vector to attack something. Being able to gather data and influence will make it that much easier. I mean even Jeff Bezos got hacked by his Saudi "friends."
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:12PM (#35364567)
>I’m not sure which part of our national security surveillance state apparatus is endangered by foreign ownership,

The propaganda part.

Remember a month ago when everyone's feed had a video in it from the TikTok CEO encouraging people to side with TikTok.

They are scared shitless of not being mostly in control of that kind of power when applied to Americans. They are worried that the next Saddam is going to pay TikTok, or some future foreign competitor to torpedo whatever the next WMD lie is (and this will be done with Chinese blessing because that will be in their geopolitical interest).

The possibility was easy to ignore back when all the social media giants were American and the feds had jurisdiction and soft power over them. Now there's a new entrant that China has jurisdiction and soft power over. They want the status quo back. Hence why all the bill language is mostly about preventing foreign ownership.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by imbnwa on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:35PM (#35367593)
>Remember a month ago when everyone's feed had a video in it from the TikTok CEO encouraging people to side with TikTok.

Remember how Elon makes it a point to stick himself into everybody's Twitter feed and even fired a guy for not maximizing this further?

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by dsfyu404ed on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:36PM (#35375404)
The establishment can squash Elon if he gets so far out of line that it pisses a critical mass of them off. He's a US Citizen. His business assets are in the US (mostly). They can get at him so long as some large subset of "they" is ok enough with it.

They can't do that with "hypothetical Chinese Elon" so long as said Elon remains in good standing with the powers that be there.

Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by imbnwa on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:17PM (#35376072)
The establishment will give him carte blanche if Musk's Twitter purchase proves out for the GOP Presidential election
Re:Senate Bill to Ban TikTok by NLPaep on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:22PM (#35364690)
No jurisdiction? They threaten your family back home.