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Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by sidewndr46 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:55AM (#35342096)
Just curious, why would you spend days resolving this? What was the amount of money here?

But yes anyone who has worked with the list of sanctioned persons circulated by the US government understands what a joke this is. Last time I looked Saddam Hussein was still on it, despite being dead for most of my life at this point. I've also been informed by at least one C-level exec that it was vitally important that we prohibit North Korean internet users from using our website.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by fn-mote on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:41AM (#35342864)
> Just curious, why would you spend days resolving this? What was the amount of money here?

Is the implication here that the should walk away from being robbed of 170 quid? They're fighting for dignified treatment.

I know this is an example of another problem, but in the US it's easy to see someone actually being killed over attempting to rob someone of $200.

People have strong reactions to unjust treatment, especially when they believe they are dealing with a fair system. (I feel it's different when you know you just have to pay the bribe.)

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:22PM (#35344614)
At some point, taking the company to small claims court is easier.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by agilob on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:00AM (#35342177)
>Just curious, why would you spend days resolving this?

Monzo couldn't reverse the transfer as the money wasn't in their hands. Wise Transfer customer support is just garbage. I spent 5 hours on a phone until > their side < ended my call during UK working hours. I called again and again, they never answered. I sent them emails, but each email I was getting was from another person who, like I said in another comment, didn't read previous email from Wise, so each time I had to explain the context and the whole situation. When I sent my response in a morning, they responded the next day afternoon.

> What was the amount of money here?

About £170 for the conference ticket.

>But yes anyone who has worked with the list of sanctioned persons circulated by the US government understands what a joke this is.

I already paid for hotel and plane tickets without issues. Best to my knowledge I'm not involved in any terrorist organisation, unless you account working for EU banking infrastructure company as such.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by sidewndr46 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:34AM (#35342744)
OK, so it was more than the price of a ticket involved.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by Teever on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:57AM (#35343122)
You're telling me that if I wanted to make an easy 170 quid all I need to do is scam you. You're not going to fight back.

You don't stand up to a bully just for their initial transgression. You stand up to a bully because if you don't they'll come at you again, even harder, and the world will see that you're soft, that you're a mark.

Gimme your lunch money, kid.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by sidewndr46 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#35343272)
Having been scammed once out of a similar amount, yeah of course I'm not going bother. I've got better things to do with my life. Now there are many times when companies did try similar scams and it was resolved with a 15 minute phone call. But there is no way I'd spend days of my life over it. Almost all scams like this are resolved by opening a dispute with my credit card processor. That's it. I get the money back and never hear anything back.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by livelielife on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:41AM (#35342856)
> I've also been informed by at least one C-level exec that it was vitally important that we prohibit North Korean internet users from using our website.

that's an order I would break; to do that goes against the principles of the internet.

I suppose I'm not getting hired any time soon

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by butt____hugger on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:57AM (#35343125)
North Korea has a LOT of sanctions against them, if you provide them services you could go to prison.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by bastardoperator on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#35343287)
It's not an order, embargo laws exist in every modern country. Doing business in embargoed countries just means prison time and fines. I don't know if you realize this, but almost nobody in NK has internet...
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:58PM (#35344191)
But internet principles say that government intelligence services and e-privateers should have access to every port!
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by vinaypai on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:09PM (#35343319)
The word you're looking for is naïve.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by livelielife on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:22PM (#35344607)
WHEN THE LAW IS CORRUPT, TO BREAK IT IS JUSTICE
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:41PM (#35344913)
Revoking or reforming a corrupt law is justice. Breaking it is individual privilege.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by peyton on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:42PM (#35344937)
Really? Lots of privileged homeless people these days.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @02:04PM (#35345279)
Yep. And lots of homeless people who are even worse off, because they didn't break the law.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by Koshkin on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @04:04PM (#35347029)
DURA LEX SED LEX

(Of course, sometimes it takes breaking the law to change the law. Revolutions, for example, have never been lawful. Governments may even praise a revolution - especially the ones that brought them to power, - yet they would always make sure that any future revolution is illegal.)

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:54PM (#35344119)
> I feel for Korean culture, split in half by AmeriRussian "interactions".

Germany reunified. Korea might have as well had it not been for North Korea's invasion of South Korea, and China's support of North Korea as a buffer zone.

And why no blame for Japan?

And what "internet principles" are you writing about? Everyone can access everything? This hasn't ever been the case. There have always been access controls.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by kube-system on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:15AM (#35342426)
> I've also been informed by at least one C-level exec that it was vitally important that we prohibit North Korean internet users from using our website.

What's wrong with that?

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by lazide on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:24AM (#35342583)
How would you be able to tell? And what sensitive information could they access? It’s defacto public.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by kube-system on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:56AM (#35343114)
> How would you be able to tell?

There are many ways. The most common are: If the users tell you they're from North Korea, you can tell that they're from North Korea. Also, if they connect from a North Korean IP, you can tell that they're from North Korea.

> And what sensitive information could they access? It’s defacto public.

The request likely had nothing to do with "sensitive information", but instead, sanctions.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by mschuster91 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:33AM (#35342730)
The problem is, all you can virtually do is to block North Korean IP space [1], but you're still legally liable if North Korean users, say, use a foreign VPN service to interact with you.

International sanctions laws are pure and utter madness, with extremely high stakes if the government changes its course on selective enforcement, so everyone is "playing it safe" rather than "doing what makes sense and question outright bullshit".

[1] https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/17/j/a-closer-look...

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by kube-system on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:52AM (#35343057)
The OFAC isn't going to expect you to bend space and time, but they do expect due diligence.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by mschuster91 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:25PM (#35343612)
My point is, what is the definition of "due diligence"? Who can say "yes, you're doing everything required"?

Usually, that's court cases and resulting case law, as well as executive fines... which means there is an insane amount of risk attached to everything related to sanctions, and additionally enforcement may vary between different governments.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by kube-system on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#35343804)
Interpreting and complying with laws is something all business have to deal with, and not just with sanctions. I am not a lawyer, but due diligence is usually “do the best you can with the data you can reasonably get”. If you need to comply with sanctions law then you should ask your corporate lawyer.

Either way, your company is required to follow the law regardless of your opinion on it.

Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by Nihilartikel on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:35PM (#35343789)
I shadowban anyone with the surname 'Kim' on account creation just to be sure.
Re:Little Snitch: PayPal has restricted our business account... by willcipriano on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:09AM (#35342325)
> despite being dead for most of my life at this point

Hey man there's no need to remind me that I'm old.